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-   -   kickoff oob enforcement (https://forum.officiating.com/football/59657-kickoff-oob-enforcement.html)

APG Tue Nov 23, 2010 05:53am
NCAA Rule
Rule 6, Section 1
Touching Ground On or Behind Goal Line
ARTICLE 7. When a free kick untouched by Team B touches the ground on or behind Team B’s goal line, the ball becomes dead and belongs to Team B.

mbyron Tue Nov 23, 2010 06:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by DLH17 (Post 702693)
In h.s., this is an automatic touch back situation, no?
I don't know what "automatic" adds, but yes, the NFHS rule is easy. Any kick (free or scrimmage) that crosses the plane of the goal line is a touchback, whether or not it has touched the ground, a player, an official, or anything else. It's still a kick until it has been caught, recovered, or becomes dead by rule.

DLH17 Tue Nov 23, 2010 09:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbyron (Post 702715)
Any kick (free or scrimmage) that crosses the plane of the goal line is a touchback, whether or not it has touched the ground, a player, an official, or anything else. It's still a kick until it has been caught, recovered, or becomes dead by rule.
thanks, mbyron.

is there anyone that can apply the college ruling?

MD Longhorn Tue Nov 23, 2010 10:11am
Quote:
Originally Posted by DLH17 (Post 702746)
thanks, mbyron.

is there anyone that can apply the college ruling?
Sure...

AllPurposeGamer can ... 2 posts before you asked.

DLH17 Tue Nov 23, 2010 10:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbcrowder (Post 702752)
Sure...

AllPurposeGamer can ... 2 posts before you asked.
............thanks :o

With_Two_Flakes Tue Nov 23, 2010 07:08pm
Difference is that in NFHS the ball is dead and a T/Back when it breaks the GL plane. In NCAA the ball is dead only when it touches the ground in the endzone.

The NFHS rule means that if a kid catches the ball in the endzone then no kickoff return is possible, the play was dead when the ball passed over the GL plane.
Whereas in the same scenario under NCAA rules, he could run it out if he wished.

Robert Goodman Wed Nov 24, 2010 12:43pm
Then let's try this one in NCAA & Fed. K's free or scrimmage kick is in the air and leaves the field of play just inside the pylon. R1 jumps from the playing area (please let's not get into the case where R1 touches out of bounds first) and reaches to try to catch the ball, touching it out of bounds behind R's goal line. Touchback or dead ball spot where the ball crossed the sideline?

JasonTX Wed Nov 24, 2010 01:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Goodman (Post 703054)
Then let's try this one in NCAA & Fed. K's free or scrimmage kick is in the air and leaves the field of play just inside the pylon. R1 jumps from the playing area (please let's not get into the case where R1 touches out of bounds first) and reaches to try to catch the ball, touching it out of bounds behind R's goal line. Touchback or dead ball spot where the ball crossed the sideline?
For NCAA, the loose ball becomes dead when it touches a player who is out of bounds. In this play it appears you are saying the ball is across the goaline when it was touched by an out of bounds player. This results in a touchback.

mbyron Wed Nov 24, 2010 01:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Goodman (Post 703054)
Then let's try this one in NCAA & Fed. K's free or scrimmage kick is in the air and leaves the field of play just inside the pylon. R1 jumps from the playing area (please let's not get into the case where R1 touches out of bounds first) and reaches to try to catch the ball, touching it out of bounds behind R's goal line. Touchback or dead ball spot where the ball crossed the sideline?
For NFHS, based on the principles stated in 6.3.1A, I have a TB here. Recovery is not complete until the player touches the ground. Since the ball is not out of bounds until R1 touches the ground out of bounds, it's still a live ball and a kick when it crosses R's goal line. Touchback.

MD Longhorn Wed Nov 24, 2010 01:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbyron (Post 703059)
For NFHS, based on the principles stated in 6.3.1A, I have a TB here. Recovery is not complete until the player touches the ground. Since the ball is not out of bounds until R1 touches the ground out of bounds, it's still a live ball and a kick when it crosses R's goal line. Touchback.
But that ruliing is inconsistent. If R1 was not involved in this play, you'd have a KOOoB - but with the goalline killing the play in FED, why would R's catch beyond that line be anything but R touching a dead ball.

mbyron Wed Nov 24, 2010 02:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbcrowder (Post 703063)
But that ruliing is inconsistent. If R1 was not involved in this play, you'd have a KOOoB - but with the goalline killing the play in FED, why would R's catch beyond that line be anything but R touching a dead ball.
I disagree. By 2-29-3, a loose ball is not out of bounds until it touches something out of bounds. If a kick bounces inbounds, then crosses the OOB line in the air, and crosses the plane of the GL before touching anything OOB, that too would be a touchback.

Both 6-1-8 and 6-2-7, which concern kicks out of bounds, refer to a "kick out of bounds between the goal lines." That's not this case.

Robert Goodman Sat Nov 27, 2010 09:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonTX (Post 703056)
For NCAA, the loose ball becomes dead when it touches a player who is out of bounds. In this play it appears you are saying the ball is across the goaline when it was touched by an out of bounds player. This results in a touchback.
It touched a player who was not out of bounds while it was across the goal line.

JasonTX Sun Nov 28, 2010 12:47am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Goodman (Post 703579)
It touched a player who was not out of bounds while it was across the goal line.
So team B touches it prior to it touching the ground behind the goalline. The ball remains live since B touches it prior to it touching the ground. If the ball subsequently goes out of bounds it will be a touchback.

ajmc Sun Nov 28, 2010 12:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by DLH17 (Post 702693)
Didn't want to start a new thread, seems like there are so many that could be consolidated a bit. Anyway, running with the "kick off" theme:

What are the differences, if any, between h.s. and college rules regarding touchback rulings?

Scenario:

Team A kicks off to Team B. Team A return man does not indicate 'fair catch' and let's ball hit the turf and roll into the end zone untouched.

Is the ball live or dead? In h.s., this is an automatic touch back situation, no? Same in college?
NFHS is pretty simple, ANY/ALL legally kicked balls that break the plane of the receiving teams goal line are touchbacks. It doesn't matter who might have touched the kick, or how many times it was touched, where it's been, or who's signaled what, as long as it is still a kick, and the ball breaks the plane of R's goal line it's a TB.

Cobra Sun Nov 28, 2010 07:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ajmc (Post 703638)
NFHS is pretty simple, ANY/ALL legally kicked balls that break the plane of the receiving teams goal line are touchbacks.
Not if it is a scoring attempt.


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