kickoff oob enforcement
 

A kickoff out of bounds, untouched by any team... what are the correct enforcements?
I thought...
1) Back up 5 yds and rekick
2) 30 yds from spot of kickoff
3) 5 yds from out of bounds spot...
My enforcement question is "Team B can choose the 5 yard penalty behind Team Bs 30... but if the kick goes out of bounds before the 30 doesn't Team B have to decline the penalty and accept the ball where it went out of bounds?"

NCAA rules... Texas High School Football

No...there are 3 options...

1) 25 yards from spot of previous kick
2) 5 yard penalty and re-kick
3) Take possession at inbound spot where ball went OOB

NFHS...I'm assuming.

These are the NCAA enforcements. Canned Heat gave you NFHS. The team can elect any enforcement they desire.

does that mean that they can recieve the 5 yard enforcement if the ball travels, untouched to the 50 yd line. or do they take it at the spot it went out...?

Assuming a regular kickoff spot (that is, not moved by penalty) from the 30, and kick OOB at the 50, here are the options:
1) Back up 5 yds and rekick from the 25.
2) 30 yds from spot of kickoff, first and 10 from the receiving team's 40.
3) 5 yds from out of bounds spot, first and 10 from the kicking team's 45.

Most likely the receiving team will choose #3.

Canadian Ruling
 

CANADIAN RULING:

• 5 yards, re-kick
• Team B 1D/10 @ spot ball went OB
• +25 yards from KO line, Team B 1D/10

FYI.....for Fed, the Kick line is not the 30 (40 YL), and in Fed...there is no 5 yard penalty on the OOB spot. The ball goes 1st and 10 from the inbound spot where it went OOB....if we're still inquiring on FED adaptation.

Yes, I'm aware of that. The original question was about NCAA, so I provided the NCAA answer.

Actually, it was orginally unknown...then edited to NFHS...then to NCAA. Duly noted...didn't catch the 2nd revision.

Regards.

Question. If R decides to take the ball at the out of bounds spot, should the decline signal be given? NFHS rules. Had an observer note on my evaluation that I should have declined it.

I don't know if that mechanic is in the book, but taking the ball where it went out of bounds would indeed amount to declining the penalty and taking the result of the play.

So I'd say, yes, signal that R declines. Probably most likely when an onside kick goes out of bounds.

Mic'd up this last weekend when we had it and it went as follows:
"Illegal Procedure (while signaling #19)...free kick out of bounds on the kicking team. Penalty declined (signal 10). White elects to take the ball at the inbounds spot....First down (signal #8)"

I'm sure others do it differently...just how I've always done it.

That's what I would do except there is no foul called "illegal procedure" (unless you are an PA announcer, broadcaster, or coach). The signal is #19 but you should not have announced illegal procedural.

If you are not mic'd though I think you still give the decline signal but nobody is probably watching the R at this point.

Correct...that's why I never make it to the state finals.

Didn't want to start a new thread, seems like there are so many that could be consolidated a bit. Anyway, running with the "kick off" theme:

What are the differences, if any, between h.s. and college rules regarding touchback rulings?

Scenario:

Team A kicks off to Team B. Team A return man does not indicate 'fair catch' and let's ball hit the turf and roll into the end zone untouched.

Is the ball live or dead? In h.s., this is an automatic touch back situation, no? Same in college?

NCAA Rule
Rule 6, Section 1
Touching Ground On or Behind Goal Line
ARTICLE 7. When a free kick untouched by Team B touches the ground on or behind Team B’s goal line, the ball becomes dead and belongs to Team B.

I don't know what "automatic" adds, but yes, the NFHS rule is easy. Any kick (free or scrimmage) that crosses the plane of the goal line is a touchback, whether or not it has touched the ground, a player, an official, or anything else. It's still a kick until it has been caught, recovered, or becomes dead by rule.

thanks, mbyron.

is there anyone that can apply the college ruling?

Sure...

AllPurposeGamer can ... 2 posts before you asked.

............thanks :o

Difference is that in NFHS the ball is dead and a T/Back when it breaks the GL plane. In NCAA the ball is dead only when it touches the ground in the endzone.

The NFHS rule means that if a kid catches the ball in the endzone then no kickoff return is possible, the play was dead when the ball passed over the GL plane.
Whereas in the same scenario under NCAA rules, he could run it out if he wished.

Then let's try this one in NCAA & Fed. K's free or scrimmage kick is in the air and leaves the field of play just inside the pylon. R1 jumps from the playing area (please let's not get into the case where R1 touches out of bounds first) and reaches to try to catch the ball, touching it out of bounds behind R's goal line. Touchback or dead ball spot where the ball crossed the sideline?

For NCAA, the loose ball becomes dead when it touches a player who is out of bounds. In this play it appears you are saying the ball is across the goaline when it was touched by an out of bounds player. This results in a touchback.

For NFHS, based on the principles stated in 6.3.1A, I have a TB here. Recovery is not complete until the player touches the ground. Since the ball is not out of bounds until R1 touches the ground out of bounds, it's still a live ball and a kick when it crosses R's goal line. Touchback.

But that ruliing is inconsistent. If R1 was not involved in this play, you'd have a KOOoB - but with the goalline killing the play in FED, why would R's catch beyond that line be anything but R touching a dead ball.

I disagree. By 2-29-3, a loose ball is not out of bounds until it touches something out of bounds. If a kick bounces inbounds, then crosses the OOB line in the air, and crosses the plane of the GL before touching anything OOB, that too would be a touchback.

Both 6-1-8 and 6-2-7, which concern kicks out of bounds, refer to a "kick out of bounds between the goal lines." That's not this case.

It touched a player who was not out of bounds while it was across the goal line.

So team B touches it prior to it touching the ground behind the goalline. The ball remains live since B touches it prior to it touching the ground. If the ball subsequently goes out of bounds it will be a touchback.

NFHS is pretty simple, ANY/ALL legally kicked balls that break the plane of the receiving teams goal line are touchbacks. It doesn't matter who might have touched the kick, or how many times it was touched, where it's been, or who's signaled what, as long as it is still a kick, and the ball breaks the plane of R's goal line it's a TB.

Not if it is a scoring attempt.

Even if it first crossed the plane of a sideline between the goal lines?

If a kick was able to, somehow, (strong wind?) cross the plane of a sideline before breaking the plane of R's goaline it would have no effect whatsoever on the status of the kick, unless of course the kick subsequently, " touches anything, including a player or game official that is out of bounds."(NF: 2-29-3), at which point the kick would be considered over and OOB.

The phrase, "breaks the plane of the receiving team's goal line" does not automatically include or reference the "goal line extended".

Thanks. That's a distinction I hadn't considered and seems to make all the difference. My Fed rule book is very old but in both the kicking and scoring rules uses the phrase "on or behind R's goal line", and in definitions has one for "goal line" that makes that distinction clear, and does not have a definition for "behind" that would blur that distinction (nor any global definition of "behind").

NCAA's wording is similar regarding "goal line" and references thereto and has a definition of "behind" that fortunately you'd have to strain at to blur the distinction between goal line/plane and its extension.

Unfortunately NFL's definition of "in touch" seems to leave this matter unclear.