NCAA: out of bounds or TD when ball hits the pylon?

[Welpe]

From what I understand in NCAA, if the ball touches the pylon (irrespective of which side), it is considered out of bounds beyond (or behind) the goal line. I will dig into the book and some interpretations at lunch time to see if I can find a reference but this may be a philosophy in an effort not to be overly technical.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Welpe

From what I understand in NCAA, if the ball touches the pylon (irrespective of which side), it is considered out of bounds beyond (or behind) the goal line. I will dig into the book and some interpretations at lunch time to see if I can find a reference but this may be a philosophy in an effort not to be overly technical.

Sort of. When it hits the pylon, it is out of bounds... but what matters is whether it had already crossed the goal line in bounds v. going out of bounds before crossing the goal line... hence the sides of the pylon mattering.

[Welpe]

And that is what I'm saying. In practice, it does not matter, it will always be considered a touchdown. I will see what I can dig up in support.

[MD Longhorn]

But that's NOT what I'm saying. It is not always a touchdown in practice. If it hits the front of the pylon, it is not a touchdown - this is why you see players diving and reaching the ball around the inside part - to score. If you hit the front, you did not score.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

But that's NOT what I'm saying. It is not always a touchdown in practice. If it hits the front of the pylon, it is not a touchdown - this is why you see players diving and reaching the ball around the inside part - to score. If you hit the front, you did not score.

What I am saying is that this is incorrect based upon interpretation.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Welpe

What I am saying is that this is incorrect based upon interpretation.

Based upon what interpretation?

4.2.4.e: When a ball carrier dives or jumps toward the sideline and is airborn as he crosses the sideline, forward progress is determined by the position of the ball as it crosses the sideline.

AR 8-2-1-IV: The ball, in posession of airborne ball carrier A21, crosses the sideline above the one-yard line, penetrates the plane of the goal line extended, and is then declared dead out of bounds in possession of A21. RULING: Ball is declared out of bounds at the one-yard line.

If you hit the front of the pylon, the ball has already gone OOB - and should be spotted where it went OOB. If you hit the side of the pylon, the ball has already gone into the endzone IN bounds - and is a TD.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Based upon what interpretation?

That is what I will work on digging up.

Logically though it makes sense to me because the pylon is at the intersection of the sideline and the goaline. By rule, a loose ball that hits the pylon is considered out of bounds behind the goal line which tells me that if a ball hits a pylon, at least part of it crossed over the goal line.

[BroKen62]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Sort of. When it hits the pylon, it is out of bounds... but what matters is whether it had already crossed the goal line in bounds v. going out of bounds before crossing the goal line... hence the sides of the pylon mattering.

Understand first of all that I know nothing about NCAA, I'm talking strictly FED here, but according to the interpretations I've seen, when a ball in player possession touches the pylon on either side or front, the ruling is touchdown - the ball has either broken the plane of the endzone proper or the goal line extended. There is nothing to suggest that the ball cannot enter the enzone from the side instead of the front. Example, a player dives for the EZ, and after having last touched IB, is over OOB beyond the goal line, reaches out and touches the ball down inside the EZ from the side - is this not a TD? If so, what would make touching the pylon from the side any different?

[JRutledge]

I believe this also applies to any other touching of the pylon like on a kick or a player touches the pylon in some other way that it is considered in the end zone. I have never heard that the side someone or something touches matters.

Peace

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I believe this also applies to any other touching of the pylon like on a kick or a player touches the pylon in some other way that it is considered in the end zone. I have never heard that the side someone or something touches matters.

Peace

You work both, so I'm assuming you're talking FED here. In NCAA, the other touchings you mention do not have the same rules as a ballcarrier crossing out of bounds near the goal line - there is a separate rule for that entirely, and that rule is the crux of the discussion. For anyone else, the pylon is simply part of OOB - you would rule on the play exactly as if the person touching the pylon was touching the ground.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

You work both, so I'm assuming you're talking FED here. In NCAA, the other touchings you mention do not have the same rules as a ballcarrier crossing out of bounds near the goal line - there is a separate rule for that entirely, and that rule is the crux of the discussion. For anyone else, the pylon is simply part of OOB - you would rule on the play exactly as if the person touching the pylon was touching the ground.

What I am talking about once you hit the pylon whatever touches the pylon is in the end zone and out of bounds. Never can remember any reference or any talk where the touching takes place. Of course there are differences slightly for a ball carrier then other things as it matters when you touch the pylon and sometimes who, but the sides I have never heard matters. My point is this should be a TD no matter what side the runner touched the pylon with the ball while they were airborne. Again I would have to see a rules reference to suggest otherwise.

Peace

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

What I am talking about once you hit the pylon whatever touches the pylon is in the end zone and out of bounds. Never can remember any reference or any talk where the touching takes place. Of course there are differences slightly for a ball carrier then other things as it matters when you touch the pylon and sometimes who, but the sides I have never heard matters. My point is this should be a TD no matter what side the runner touched the pylon with the ball while they were airborne. Again I would have to see a rules reference to suggest otherwise.

Peace

I quoted you the rule and the AR. If the ball hits the front, then it HAS to have gone out of bounds first.

(Consider ... if this is wrong, why would players be trying to keep the ball in bounds as they approach the pylon in the air? You see this all the time.)

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by BroKen62

Understand first of all that I know nothing about NCAA, I'm talking strictly FED here, but according to the interpretations I've seen, when a ball in player possession touches the pylon on either side or front, the ruling is touchdown - the ball has either broken the plane of the endzone proper or the goal line extended. There is nothing to suggest that the ball cannot enter the enzone from the side instead of the front. Example, a player dives for the EZ, and after having last touched IB, is over OOB beyond the goal line, reaches out and touches the ball down inside the EZ from the side - is this not a TD? If so, what would make touching the pylon from the side any different?

And I'm talking NCAA. (In the scenario you mention, no, it's not a TD in NCAA)