OL "Check with me" & DL jumping

[OakTree]

Hello, I'm a young official and would like some clarification here. For reference, I'm in Texas calling sub-varsity ball with NCAA rules.

Recently in one of our first games of the season officiating a team which runs a spread, we ran into the increasingly popular scenario where the OL get down into their stance, and upon hearing a coach (or some other mechanism to inform them to 'check with the coach'), the offense turns and checks with the sideline to get an audible or adjustment. The issue I ran into is that eventually the defense jumped when the OL jerked back, making contact. I realize that the OL is allowed to stand up like this, however the coach of the defensive team argued that the OL was in their stance and was popping up in a fairly quick motion that could theoretically resemble the start of a play if a DL were antsy enough to believe it. Is this ever a judgement call, or should this always be a penalty against the defensive team? A couple of more experienced refs on my crew seemed at odds on their assessment of the situation.

Thank you for your time.

[Welpe]

This is purely a judgment call on your part. If you believe the Team A player simulated the start of the play, then flag him for false start. Otherwise, it is a dead ball on Team B for being offside.

From what you describe, this type of motion rarely simulates the start of the play so I would be inclined to put the foul on the defense but I would want to see it.

[Sonofanump]

Originally Posted by OakTree

was popping up in a fairly quick motion that could theoretically resemble the start of a play if a DL were antsy enough to believe it.

It all comes down to this. If they are doing it all game and all of sudden the defense jumps, you have a foul on B.

[chymechowder]

When you say the offensive lineman are "down in their stance," do you mean they've got their hand(s) on the ground or below their knees?

Because if so, they're not allowed to come up from that. Even if they do it "smoothly." There's no judgment call in this regard. False start.

But if they're just squatting with their hands on their hips or thighs, then they can stand up again, so long as they don't do it in a manner that simulates the start of the play. (As said, this is a judgment call.)

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by Sonofanump

It all comes down to this. If they are doing it all game and all of sudden the defense jumps, you have a foul on B.

I disagree. Your principle would give the offense and unfair advantage, for example when it was 4th and 3, and they did their check a little louder and quicker in order to cause encroachment.

No, the covering officials must judge each time whether the offense is simulating the start of the play. That's the same, consistent principle that applies to "hard counts" and QB head bobs.

[MD Longhorn]

I agree that the fact they were doing this all game doesn't affect the call. But the defender jumping should not be your trigger. If YOU thought they were simulating the start of the play, it's on the offense... WHETHER THE DEFENSE JUMPS OR NOT. So if you weren't going to call it if the defender DIDN'T jump, then don't call it if they do.

[Sonofanump]

Originally Posted by mbyron

I disagree. Your principle would give the offense and unfair advantage, for example when it was 4th and 3, and they did their check a little louder and quicker in order to cause encroachment.

Then that is different then the same thing all game.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by Sonofanump

Then that is different then the same thing all game.

You didn't say the "same thing," whatever that means. You said "doing it all game." My point was that there's doing it and doing it. Which is to say, there's a way to do it legally and a way to do it illegally, and that calls for judgment on every play.

Your statement reminds me of the coach who's flagged for a false start and responds, "we've been doing it all game!"

[OakTree]

Originally Posted by chymechowder

When you say the offensive lineman are "down in their stance," do you mean they've got their hand(s) on the ground or below their knees?

Because if so, they're not allowed to come up from that. Even if they do it "smoothly." There's no judgment call in this regard. False start.

Thanks everyone, for the insight.

Do we all agree on the portion above?

[mbyron]

A lineman being "down in his stance" does not entail a hand on the ground, because a 2-point stance is legal.