"Hand grenade" Celebration

[Welpe]

Oh gee Tanner, NOW look what you've started!

I'm going to blame grunewar for this as well and he probably hasn't even read the thread! Maybe I'll throw Snaqs in there as well.

[ajmc]

Originally Posted by bigjohn

All because we can't praise God after a TD!!!!!!

LOL!!!!!!!

Maybe it is the lack of prayer in school!

John, it's not about "praising God after a TD". It's about making a spectacle out of how you might choose to do it. I suspect God is just as appreciative of a sincere, private expression of praise and thanks, without a lot of showmanship, maybe even more.

[bigjohn]

I was being sarcastic! I have been on that side of this whole tread!

[ShadowRef]

Originally Posted by bigjohn

We have had this called against us so it must be a foul, no?

BJ; I am under the impression your not an official but a coach that wants to troll...

Like the Supreme court justices said to Larry Flynt... you know it when you see it...

anytime a team scores, there is some form of celebration, We as officials are responsible to move in collect the ball for the pat and hustle the players back to their respective huddles.

Our job is to keep the game moving, and maintain its integrity. Our best games as officials are the ones that no one remembers us being there at all.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by ShadowRef

BJ; I am under the impression your not an official but a coach that wants to troll...

Like the Supreme court justices said to Larry Flynt... you know it when you see it...

You are right that BJ is a coach and often gets into with people about obscure rules or applications of the rules. I honestly think he means well, but gets caught up in some wording or situation that does not apply to his main "*****" about how a rule is enforced or not enforced.

Originally Posted by ShadowRef

anytime a team scores, there is some form of celebration, We as officials are responsible to move in collect the ball for the pat and hustle the players back to their respective huddles.

Our job is to keep the game moving, and maintain its integrity. Our best games as officials are the ones that no one remembers us being there at all.

I have to say this. Can we stop saying that we are not to be noticed to be considered a good official or doing a good job. That stopped happening some years ago for most of us. Even if we do not call something controversial or anything goofy happens, we have coaches that know before that game starts who we are. And in the age of YouTube and commentators on TV talking about officiating every other play; we are going to be noticed all the time. I think we do ourselves a disservice by acting like if we do not call things we will not get noticed or that should be the barometer. Some of the best officials are noticed for the right reasons, not for what we call or do not call.

Peace

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by ShadowRef

Our best games as officials are the ones that no one remembers us being there at all.

I've always hated hearing this. It's just not true. If no one remembers us being there at all, it probably means we were not doing our jobs. No game is ever run so cleanly that we are not visible in some aspect. I hate when officials say this, it often means their goal is to fly under the radar and not affect the game... but the result means they DID affect the game by not making calls they should have.

Seen and not heard is a cop-out for doing your job.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

I've always hated hearing this. It's just not true. If no one remembers us being there at all, it probably means we were not doing our jobs. No game is ever run so cleanly that we are not visible in some aspect. I hate when officials say this, it often means their goal is to fly under the radar and not affect the game... but the result means they DID affect the game by not making calls they should have.

Seen and not heard is a cop-out for doing your job.

+1

There's a fine line between being a waste of space who can't make a call and being an officious, pompous àss. Still, that's the line we walk.

[umpirebob71]

Just to set the record straight...the term "I know it when I see it..." had nothing to do with Larry Flynt. In Jacobellis v. Ohio. Ohio 378 US 184 (1964) Justice Potter Stewart wrote in a concurring opinion; "I shall not today attemp further to define the kinds of material I understand to be embraced within that shorthand description ["hardcore pornography"]; and perhaps I could never succeed in intelligibly doing so. But I know it when I see it, and the motion picture involved in this case is not that."

[ShadowRef]

Was not wanting to come off as attacking BJ too much.. was just the feeling I got from how he said things..

I agree, my statement of not being noticed is short sighted, in trying to make a point and be brief to cut down on read time words do not come out correctly.

Coaches and fans while they will not always agree with our calls, will usually remember us for the major screw ups. Those people have an interest in the outcome of the game. combine that with a lack of knowledge of rules, or even worse; their own interpretation of a rule, that as officials we have worked together to maintain a consistant agreement of the proper administration of when to penalize or not.

Yes there are occasional gems working as coaches that will come out and tell you great call even though it went against his team.... usually with him acting like he is raising hell and chuckling as he says If I don't do this my parents will hang me..

Thanks Bob71, guess I fell in with the urban legend of that being based on the Flynt case...

[ajmc]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

I've always hated hearing this. It's just not true. If no one remembers us being there at all, it probably means we were not doing our jobs. No game is ever run so cleanly that we are not visible in some aspect. I hate when officials say this, it often means their goal is to fly under the radar and not affect the game... but the result means they DID affect the game by not making calls they should have.

Seen and not heard is a cop-out for doing your job.

Suggesting that being seen, but nor heard, or anyone remembers us being there at all is somehow, "a cop-out for doing your job", is simply wrong and misguided.

We are not participants in the game and it is not the intention for us to impact, or affect the outcome of the game. We are included simply to insure that the game is run properly and that neither team violates any rule that would give them an unfair advantage, or place their oponent at an unfair disadvantage. The game is played only by the participants

"Not being noticed" is NOT related to the number, or type, of fouls called or even the significance of the result of any fouls that may be called, when the officials are adept at handling their responsibilities, their movement and positioning is professional, precise and effective, they are clear in their decisions and decisive in their actions.

Our objective is NOT to "please" either team, rather to generate confidence in both teams that our decisions are absolutely unbiased and impartial. To "NOT be noticed" usually requires an effective performance in which all of the skills required of the job are accomplished consistently and effectively with as little fanfare as possible.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by ajmc

"Not being noticed" is NOT related to the number, or type, of fouls called or even the significance of the result of any fouls that may be called...

It may not be to us but it certainly is to many coaches, fans and commentators.

The flag on Washington State's Jake Locker a couple of years ago for an obvious USC is the perfect example of such.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by ajmc

Suggesting that being seen, but nor heard, or anyone remembers us being there at all is somehow, "a cop-out for doing your job", is simply wrong and misguided.

I disagree. It's not wrong or misguided ... and CERTAINLY not bold and italic wrong or misguided!

We are not participants in the game and it is not the intention for us to impact, or affect the outcome of the game. We are included simply to insure that the game is run properly and that neither team violates any rule that would give them an unfair advantage, or place their oponent at an unfair disadvantage. The game is played only by the participants

"Not being noticed" is NOT related to the number, or type, of fouls called or even the significance of the result of any fouls that may be called, when the officials are adept at handling their responsibilities, their movement and positioning is professional, precise and effective, they are clear in their decisions and decisive in their actions.

Our objective is NOT to "please" either team, rather to generate confidence in both teams that our decisions are absolutely unbiased and impartial. To "NOT be noticed" usually requires an effective performance in which all of the skills required of the job are accomplished consistently and effectively with as little fanfare as possible.

However, I agree with the rest of this. I guess I should clarify what I meant. We've all seen officials out there just to get through the game, flying under the radar and only flagging the Elephant fouls, and even that begrudgingly. Same guy might be heard saying, "Mike, why'd you flag that late hold. Now we're going to be late for Monday Night Football"... and these same officials are those I've heard saying, "we're there to be seen, not heard."

I would add, however, that an official that is not noticed at all PROBABLY was shirking on his calls at times. I grant that you get a game every once in a while where all your calls are obvious and unargued. But given that in most games there are a few plays that are so close that 1 side or the other is going to hate you regardless of what you do, the "not noticed" game is rare.

[grunewar]

Originally Posted by Welpe

I'm going to blame grunewar for this as well and he probably hasn't even read the thread! Maybe I'll throw Snaqs in there as well.

I finally read this long thread and I agree!

[JFlores]

Originally Posted by Welpe

What if he simulates a nuclear weapon instead of a hand grenade? Where does the insanity end?

Ex-President Bush would then send the troops to invade said players house. Then hold a press conference stating he found the WMD's.