is it possible

[benbret]

Team b is winning by 5 35-30. Team A scores on a pass and we have a live ball 15 yd foul and a dead ball 15 yard foul on A. B will take both penalties on the kickoff. During a missed try team A is charged with a 15 yard live ball foul. Team B will take this penalty on the kickoff. The score is now 36-35 Team A winning with 15 seconds left in the game. Can Team B kickoff from the 30, hope to get an on side kick inside the 20 and try a field goal to win the game.

[BroKen62]

Originally Posted by benbret

Team b is winning by 5 35-30. Team A scores on a pass and we have a live ball 15 yd foul and a dead ball 15 yard foul on A. B will take both penalties on the kickoff. During a missed try team A is charged with a 15 yard live ball foul. Team B will take this penalty on the kickoff. The score is now 36-35 Team A winning with 15 seconds left in the game. Can Team B kickoff from the 30, hope to get an on side kick inside the 20 and try a field goal to win the game.

Quick answer without looking is no, the missed try is not a scoring play b/c no points were scored.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by benbret

Team b is winning by 5 35-30. Team A scores on a pass and we have a live ball 15 yd foul and a dead ball 15 yard foul on A. B will take both penalties on the kickoff. During a missed try team A is charged with a 15 yard live ball foul. Team B will take this penalty on the kickoff. The score is now 36-35 Team A winning with 15 seconds left in the game. Can Team B kickoff from the 30, hope to get an on side kick inside the 20 and try a field goal to win the game.

Why didn't B take the penalty for the original live ball foul and negate the TD?

And if they did enforce just 2 penalties, wouldn't those be enough to move their spot for a chosen kickoff to the non-offending team's 30 in Fed?

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by benbret

Team A scores on a pass and we have a live ball 15 yd foul and a dead ball 15 yard foul on A.

Acceptance of the live ball foul would negate the TD.

During a missed try team A is charged with a 15 yard live ball foul.

This penalty is declined. If it's accepted, Team A gets to retry the PAT.

Also, Team B is not going to kick.

[tomes1978]

Make the live ball fouls dead ball fouls after the score and it's possible.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by tomes1978

Make the live ball fouls dead ball fouls after the score and it's possible.

Actually, it's not.

The OP wrote, "Can Team B kickoff from the 30, hope to get an on side kick inside the 20 and try a field goal to win the game."

Team B isn't going to kick off. Team A is. And Team A is NOT going to kick an onside kick when they're winning a game with 15 seconds remaining.

The entire premise of the original post makes no sense whatsover.

[Reffing Rev.]

Didn't I read somewhere that the opponents of the scoring team determine which team kicksoff following a score, so couldn't team B decide to kickoff after a Team A Score, and go down in history as the craziest bunch of yahoos to play the game since the invention of the forward pass?

[tomes1978]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Actually, it's not.

The OP wrote, "Can Team B kickoff from the 30, hope to get an on side kick inside the 20 and try a field goal to win the game."

Team B isn't going to kick off. Team A is. And Team A is NOT going to kick an onside kick when they're winning a game with 15 seconds remaining.

The entire premise of the original post makes no sense whatsover.

Rule 8-3-9: reads .... after a try, the opponent of the scoring team shall designate which team will kick off.

So B could elect to kick off, take the penalties try an onside kick and recover it, and kick the field goal to win the game.

[BktBallRef]

Got news for you my friend. Coaches don't know that rule.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by benbret

Team b is winning by 5 35-30. Team A scores on a pass and we have a live ball 15 yd foul and a dead ball 15 yard foul on A. B will take both penalties on the kickoff. During a missed try team A is charged with a 15 yard live ball foul. Team B will take this penalty on the kickoff. The score is now 36-35 Team A winning with 15 seconds left in the game. Can Team B kickoff from the 30, hope to get an on side kick inside the 20 and try a field goal to win the game.

CANADIAN RULING:

It depends on the nature of the live ball 15-yard penalty.

But yes, it is possible for B to kickoff to A, with the three (3) 15-yard fouls enforced, leaving B kicking from the A-20.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by benbret

Team b is winning by 5 35-30. Team A scores on a pass and we have a live ball 15 yd foul and a dead ball 15 yard foul on A. B will take both penalties on the kickoff. During a missed try team A is charged with a 15 yard live ball foul. Team B will take this penalty on the kickoff. The score is now 36-35 Team A winning with 15 seconds left in the game. Can Team B kickoff from the 30, hope to get an on side kick inside the 20 and try a field goal to win the game.

Wow ... this one is a mess for 5 reasons off the top of my head. Want to start over?

[jemiller]

It would take some luck and some explaining on the front end about B deciding who is going to kick-off, but yes I think that it is possible. Wacky idea...but possible. Jim

[bisonlj]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Got news for you my friend. Coaches don't know that rule.

That's OK. Many officials don't either. It's an odd rule that i had someone explain to me one time but it never happens so it's never been brought up to the rules committee.

[With_Two_Flakes]

That used to be the Rule in NCAA. But they changed it a few years back to explicitly state that the team who scored the TD / FG are the ones who kick off.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by bisonlj

That's OK. Many officials don't either. It's an odd rule that i had someone explain to me one time but it never happens so it's never been brought up to the rules committee.

Going back to before Fed existed, it used to be the norm for teams to choose to kick off. That choice became rarer over time, especially as the spot of the kickoff was moved backward from midfield to the 40. Go back far enough and there was no choice -- the team that was scored on had to kick off.

About 30 years ago the NFL eliminated the choice of kickoff after a TD & try, and 2 yrs. later eliminated the choice after a FG. I think the reason for NFL, and now NCAA, to eliminate the choice was to eliminate one conversation with the team captain that might've resulted in a misunderstanding, when nobody had asked to kick off in a while anyway. I used to see the referee point to the team that was scored on as their defense squad was running off, and I could only imagine he was muttering, "Kick or receive?" and pretending to pay att'n to the answer.

The only time during my life that I saw the scored-on team to choose to kick off was a televised CFL game during an NFL strike in the 1980s. The team that was behind had scored a TD, recovered their own kickoff, and driven to score another. After that one, the team protecting their lead chose to kick off (deep) to prevent another onside recovery. It's more of a threat in Canadian football because the team kicking off doesn't have to allow opp'ty for team R to catch the ball -- a rugby style chip to the side was what the team that was behind had used -- and the ball stays live after K recovery. That game was before they moved the spot of the kickoff back from the 45 to the 35.

In standard Rugby Union it's still the scored-on team that must kick off. However, in 7-a-side Hong Kong rules their opponents kick off. And of course in soccer, where the dynamics are very different, the scored-on team kicks off.