This is truly unbelievable!

[snrmike]

It seems that negotiations with the league fell apart last night. This league simply does not believe the story of the officials involved. Furthermore the league thinks he is a lousy official, and believed the coaches'lies. Because one of the coaches is "the whole Palos program" they will not kick him out.

The league director told the ADs he has seen every tape made by parents at the game and none of them show any coach pushing the official - who, by the way is only 19 years old. The AD has not produced those tapes nor shown them to anyone else.

Keep in mind that this is YOUTH football!

[Ed Hickland]

Not beyond belief. That is, if you are an official.

"Youth" sports today suffers from parents running these programs of which many have absolutely no idea about football except what they see on TV.

My hope is that fellow officials have the intestinal fortitude to stand up to this league and boycott their games.

I am sure there are some officials who would complain about the loss of money but loss of dignity has no price.

[snrmike]

Even though I don't ref in this league much anymore, I am standing arm-in-arm with these guys.

Here's what's happening:

Several local writers have been apprised of the situation.

At least one radio sports-talk host has been supportive.

Several BBS's have posts from me or a colleague who goes by "Zebra".

This weekend's games are boycotted. Officials will be manning picket-lines and handing out literature to passersby and officials who may have been duped into working.

One more thing:
The league's president has admitted that he hasn't seen any tapes. He just lied about this situation so that he could pull this weekend off without any problems.

Guess that strategy is backfiring.

[Mike Simonds]

I just wanted to say keep the faith! The integrity of the game is in your hands.

[snrmike]

With regards to the job actions taken...

All of the games played this weekend were done so with coaches and other willing parents as the officials. As far as could be determined, only two licensed officials worked the games.

One of the day's programs started at 11:45AM and didn't end until Midnite. Another ended at 11:30PM

As you might suspect, signals and mechanics were not even close to what they were used to getting. Rules interpretations were "creative" to say the least.

In my opinion, it was a sad, sad day for youth football in the Chicago's Southwest 'burbs. One of the guilty parties responsible for the officials having to take this job action was actrually seen trying his hand at the umpire position - and butchering it badly.

I'm really glad that my HS schedule was full. I didn't have to witness the debacle.

[BktBallRef]

I hope they stand strong. I wish I was close enough to support them by being there.

[TXMike]

Who is getting hurt the most here guys??? The League who now gets to keep the concession stands running longer and make more $$$$? The coaches who have shown they can pull it off, albeit not as cleanly as we would have made it? The refs who are not being mistreated by being on the field?

Or the KIDS????????

[snrmike]

So what you're saying is that "for the sake of the kids" we should allow these butts to abuse a 19-year-old kid, simply because they want to? Or better yet, these jackasses don't like the kid's calls, so that justifies their bad behavior? Or even better, when they want they have an overweight kid, they help him/her "make weight" by administering Lasix to them to "help" them.

The last time I checked, no kid was ever permanently damaged because they didn't have licensed officials refereeing their pee-wee football games.

As a matter of fact, most high school coaches have problems "de-programming" these kids when they get to 9th grade and have to spend extra time teaching them the correct fundamentals of football.

Please don't preach about that which you don't know.

[TXMike]

Wow...you are a little keyed up aren't you????

What exactly is it that I don't know? I have served as the commissioner of a youth football league with 32 teams. I have coached youth football. I have reffed yourth football.

From what I have read about the league in question, it is huge!!! And this is the 1st "serious" incident in 25 years?!?!?!?! (And I say "serious" because the "assault" that apparently occurred, while wrong, pales in comparison to assaults on other officials around the country.

What ever happened to trying to work in the system for change instead of this "in your face" way of dealing with the problem which almost lowers the refs to the level of the bad coaches?

And now we hear that the independent review of the tape does not even corroborate what was alleged by the ref??????

[snrmike]

....know what happened being that you're from Texas, I'm wondering where you're getting your info from.

If it's from this thread, please read again. They didn't even bother to look at the tape is what I've said here. While there are varying degrees of assault, I don't think any official at any level should ever be touched, shoved or threatened by anyone.

This young man admittedly needs a lot of training and improvement, which is why he was working an 8th grade game rather than a HS varsity game. Does this give a 50 year old man a license to shove the kid around and threaten to "kill him" if he calls the police?

That will touch a nerve anytime I hear about it. This situation needs ro be dealt with firmly. The league won't even consider punishing the offending party because he has a load of cash.

Gimme a break will ya? Are we supposed to let this escalate to the point that somebody has to be admitted to a hospital before the problems are dealt with?

There isn't a system within this particular league. That's what the officials are complaining about. What recourse do officials have? How can you say that there haven't been any incidents in the past 25 years? I was personally involved in one of this league's problem incidents about 6 years ago. That wasn't dealt with either!

Where, exactly, are you getting your info from about this incident?

[TXMike]

I read the article someone posted from the "Southtown News".

The story claimed the tape had been reviewed by the League AND by the newspaper. Result: Inconclusive evidence.

I am not saying to let the problem escalate. I am just questioning the tactic used to deal with the problem.

[snrmike]

I just read the article. It didn't say inconclusive anywhere in the article - it said that the angle that the tape was made from wasn't good enough to determine who did what.

I also spoke with a couple of parents who attended the game, not to mention the senior official on the game who has approximately 20 years on the job. The kid ref who was shoved is 19. He's also only about 5-10 and weighs about 150lbs soaking wet.

Judge for yourselves guys... here's the article:

"Referees demand coach's ouster "

Alleged attack during a youth league game has officials sitting out

Sunday, October 6, 2002

By Carrie Wolfe
Staff writer

-----------------------------------------------------
Forty referees who work for a local private youth football league are refusing to show up at games until a coach who allegedly attacked a referee is banned from the league.
The referees, who are hired by the Southwest Midget Football League, said they are uniting in support of Steve Besse Jr., 19, who says two Palos Stars coaches attacked him Sept. 14 at a Palos Stars-New Lenox Mustangs game.

Palos Stars assistant coach Joseph Vojanek was banned from the league after the incident, but head coach Louis Trench was not.

Referees are worried for their safety, former head referee Tom Hug said.

"We want (Trench) to be banned from coaching and being the athletic director for the Palos Stars," Hug said. "(Referees) don't want him to be on the game fields."

Trench is the same coach who drew criticism for allegedly giving a 10-year-old player the prescription diuretic Lasix in 1995 to help him lower his weight before football tryouts.

Although never criminally charged by Palos Hills police, Trench was quoted in media accounts as supporting the one-time use of the drug, which rids the body of water and causes users to urinate heavily. Doctors at the time said the drug could cause health problems in a child with undiagnosed kidney or heart problems.

The league has rejected the referees' demand to oust Trench.

At a special meeting Wednesday, the league board voted to keep Trench in his current positions as vice president of the Southwest league and athletic director for the Palos Stars.

The board, made up of the athletic directors of the 14 teams in the league, also adopted a set of official policies, including one that enables the league to expel from a game any coach, athletic director, official or fan who physically assaults any game participant, said Tinley Park Bulldogs athletic director Nick Genardo.

That and other policies the league adopted — outlining provisions on sportsmanship, coach conduct and liability issues — were requested by the referees.

But the league hasn't met all the demands, including banning Trench.

"We will not be back until those demands are met," Hug said.

In addition to the 40 referees boycotting the league, 280 other referees around the state have agreed to join the strike until demands are met, Hug said.

As a result, games are being played with coaches and fathers serving as referees. The 51 games played last weekend had no official referees. The league has more than 3,000 players.

Some parents will not let their children play without licensed officials, Hug said. But several athletic directors said things were going fairly smoothly without the referees, despite a few questionable calls.

Hug suggested that parents may not want to speak out because they fear their kids will be denied playing time.

"They're just afraid of the repercussions they will face for speaking out," Hug said.

Tolerated behavior?

Before this incident, the league had no written policy for coach-referee conduct, Genardo said. In the league's 42-year history, no coach had had a physical fight with a referee, he said.

Vojanek was banned from the league on Sept. 25 after the league determined that he "actually put his hands on (Besse)," Genardo said.

"We don't tolerate that kind of behavior," he said.

But the league voted to keep Trench, since "there is no physical proof, other than going off on a screaming rampage, which Louis is known for, that (Trench) physically touched (Besse)," he said.

Coaches reviewed a home video of the incident Wednesday before voting to exonerate Trench.

Referees and coaches disagree on what the video shows. Genardo said it clears Trench, but some referees say they see Trench push Besse several times.

In a copy of the tape viewed by a Daily Southtown reporter, Trench can be seen yelling in Besse's face and then being restrained by at least two people while he continues to yell at Besse. It is difficult to determine whether there was any physical contact because of the camera angle and the distance from the action.

Regardless of whether Trench pushed Besse, Hug said he believes the incident set a bad example for the players.

"Now it's acceptable behavior to those kids," Hug said.

While Trench was reprimanded verbally and in writing for his actions at the game, Hug said the referees believe Trench is being protected by the league because he has been involved in the program for at least 30 years.

But Genardo disagreed.

"The big rumor is we're a good ol' boys network and we took care of Lou," Genardo said. "That's not true."

For his part, Trench would only say that neither he nor Vojanek touched Besse and reiterated that "the league exonerated me."

He referred all other questions to his attorney, David Dineff, who repeated Trench's comments and said he had not seen the video or discussed Trench's behavior with him.

Vojanek declined comment; league president Ron Schaper did not return several calls.

'Have someone else run it'

According to Besse, the incident at the Sept. 14 game in New Lenox started when, with two minutes left in the game, Vojanek called for a time-out.

The Palos Stars were losing 29-0. Vojanek approached Besse and started yelling obscenities at him and two other game officials, Besse said.

Besse threw a yellow flag and called an automatic 15-yard penalty for unsportsmanlike conduct. Vojanek picked up the flag and threw it at him, Besse said.

Vojanek then pushed Besse's shoulders and "belly butted" him, Besse said. When Besse ejected him from the game, Trench came onto the field, "belly butted" him and pushed him, Besse said.

Besse asked Trench to leave, but Trench said, "I'm not leaving my (expletive) field," and, "I'm going to (expletive) kill you," Besse said.

Besse said he's been refereeing for several years and began working with the Illinois High School Association when he was 18, but the fight has caused him to question if he wants to continue.

"It just kind of gets to the point where I don't know if I want to do this anymore," he said. He's not scared of the two coaches, he said, but he won't go near them.

"I think he should be out of the league," Besse said of Trench. "They can have someone else run it."

Referee Larry Hug, Tom Hug's brother, said Trench told him repeatedly that night, "if that (expletive) punk presses charges Monday, he's a dead man."

Kids caught in the middle

Players in the league range in age from 7 to 14. They come to play from as far north as Palos Hills, as far south as Crete-Monee, as far east as Glenwood and as far west as Joliet.

Super pee-wee division Palos Stars Coach Rick Hoppenrath Jr., who witnessed the confrontation, said events of the day contributed to the fight.

There were questionable calls throughout the game, Hoppenrath said, and Besse wasn't paying attention. Besse was concerned about younger children playing near his truck and missed a hard illegal hit to a Palos Stars player, he said.

He also said that while Trench screamed at Besse to get off the field, he never touched Besse. But, he said, Besse slapped Vojanek's hand away when Vojanek pointed at him.

"The problem is I feel the referees are trying to hold us hostage," Hoppenrath said. "Of everybody that's in (the football league), they're the only paid people. ... All they're hurting is the kids."

Besse denied Hoppenrath's allegations, but referees agreed that the players are the ones who are suffering.

"The adults who are running the league and refusing to do the right thing are making the kids suffer," Larry Hug said.

Possible charges

Besse went to the Palos Hills Police Department on the Monday after the incident and asked to press charges against Trench and Vojanek.

No charges have been filed yet, and Besse said he may take his case to the Cook County state's attorney if they do not.

And the decision not to return to field was not unanimous for the referees. Two have agreed to start working again because they believe Trench didn't touch Besse, Genardo said.

The league does not disagree that Trench went too far, he said.

"We're all in full agreement that Louis' actions were a little over the top, no doubt about it."

[snrmike]

...and then I will comment no longer. Everyone here knows my opinions on this topic, and they won't change anytime soon.

I noticed that TXMike posted his comments abot the boycott on Saturday, October 5th at approximately 9AM. This article wasn't posted on the newspaper's website until roughly 6PM on Saturday.

Have a good day everyone. I know I will. I have a game tonite!

[TXMike]

Go back again Inspector Clouseau. My initial comments on this "boycott" had nothing to do with the article and were posted before the article came out. In fact, I posted similar comments on another board when the rest of us in the world were first clued into this situation last week. But my subsequent comments were after I viewed the article. All the article did was make me feel even stronger about my position.

If you cannot read the article and take away from it that the tape was inconclusive then you are truly not being an impartial observer. When the NFL looks at a tape and says they can't see enough to over rule a call, they are saying the tape is inconclusive. The way I read this article, the tape inconclusive. It does not matter if the camera angle is bad, or the videographer was shaking, or what the reason was. The bottom line is the tape is inconclusive.

[snrmike]

This isn't the NFL, this is youth football.

Are you saying that it's OK for the coaches to push, shove and threaten lives? You may argue that it was "in the heat of the moment", the cold fact is that this is all too frequent with the team in question.

The article quoted a league source as saying that this was the first incidence of violence perpetrated on an official, when I disctinctly remember a coach being so irate at an official that he actually ran an official over WITH HIS CAR in the field parking lot. The official involved in the incident immediately filed chagres with the Crestwood, IL police dept. I guess memories are very short indeed!

There were several instances in which one of the teams had a team announcer threaten officials over the park's PA system. In some of those cases, the officials had to be escorted by police off the field to their vehicles. The team was reprimanded - slap on the wrist.

Once again Mike, you have no idea what you are talking about with regard to this league. I find it apalling that an official would take the side of the abusive, egotistical and self-centered "coaches" in this case. You start by saying that you have the kids' welfare as your main concern.

Well, my friend, this isn't about the kids, it's about adults who have completely lost sight of the objective and that's what we're protesting. Sadly, it's about some absolutely warped parents imposing their corrupt sense of values on the innocents of the area.

What are they teaching these kids? That it's OK to assualt somebody simply because you disagree with them? That it's OK to dispense Lasix to 10-year-olds so that they can make weight - even though they might suffer permanent kidney damage?

Get over yourself dude. The video tape, along with audio raised enough questions for this incident to become the lead story on the 10 o'clock news on the ABC and NBC owned stations here in Chicago this past Sunday.

Inconclusive? Hardly.

This isn't an NFL "game". These are our children's lives.