RTP or just PF?

[bossman72]

QB throws a pass and gets hit. The hit is almost immediately after the pass is thrown, but it's a hard helmet-to-helmet hit.

Would this be RTP or just a PF? The timing of the hit itself is good - had there been no helmet contact, there would have been no foul.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by bossman72

QB throws a pass and gets hit. The hit is almost immediately after the pass is thrown, but it's a hard helmet-to-helmet hit.

Would this be RTP or just a PF? The timing of the hit itself is good - had there been no helmet contact, there would have been no foul.

You've answered your own question. A PF does not become RTP just because the he happens to be a passer.

Flag the helmet contact. What's the basic spot?

[ajmc]

Originally Posted by mbyron

You've answered your own question. A PF does not become RTP just because the he happens to be a passer.

Flag the helmet contact. What's the basic spot?

I beg to differ, a PF applied to a player who is a passer is EXACTlY what Roughing the Passer is all about. The entire concept is that a passer, because of the added vulnerability included with passing, is afforded additional protection (Same concept for roughing the kicker, holder or snapper).

Any PF delivered to a player, while satisfying the definition of a "passer"
(NF:2-32-11) should be condidered RTP, so as to include the additional penalties associated with that specific foul. Where the RTP additional sanctions do NOT apply is when the foul is committed either before, or after, the requirements of the player fouled, of being a "passer" are not present.

[With_Two_Flakes]

...and the same rationale would apply under NCAA rules.

Both Rules Ctte's wish to strongly dissuade this type of contact. Adding the 15yds to the end of the play if the pass is caught is how they have chosen to do this. Whilst he is still regarded as the passer, then any PF counts as RTP, not just the late ones.

[Forksref]

I go with RTP in these situations. He is more vulnerable than a runner would be.

If the pass was completed, tack on the 15. If incomplete, enforce from the previous spot. In both cases, automatic first down.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by Forksref

I go with RTP in these situations. He is more vulnerable than a runner would be.

This is a mistake if he no longer qualifies as a passer. But I agree that if it's borderline the benefit of the doubt should go toward RTP.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by bossman72

QB throws a pass and gets hit. The hit is almost immediately after the pass is thrown, but it's a hard helmet-to-helmet hit.

Would this be RTP or just a PF? The timing of the hit itself is good - had there been no helmet contact, there would have been no foul.

CANADIAN RULING:

This is RTP - Spearing. Always has been, always will be. 15+AFD.