The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Football

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Wed Oct 28, 2009, 12:52pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,230
Illegal forward pass?

Disclaimer: I am not a football official nor do I play one on tv. I did not stay at a holiday inn express last night...etc

I help out an officiating colleague every winter with his college intramural program at the University with basketball. I get out and officiate with the college students and try to get them interested in doing middle/high school officiating the following year. It's be a pretty sucessful partnership, if you ask me.

Well, this fall I decided I would try my hand at flag football although it had been a good 5-6 years since I last did a game in college. It's been an interesting learning curve to re-learn everything that I tried to forget since college, this wasn't my favorite sport in college intramurals. We had the following situation the other night:

QB A1 is flushed out of the pocket by the defenders. A1 crosses the line of scrimmage during his scramble and then retreats behind the LOS to avoid another defender. QB then completes a forward pass with both feet clearly behind the LOS.

It must be noted that this play is LEGAL in flag football. As long as this is the first forward pass of the down, this play is absolutely, by rule, a legal forward pass. No infractions have been committed.

While talking with my colleague, he was unsure of the legality of this play in "real" football. He believes that this is illegal in all football levels (NFHS, NCAA, NFL) but I wanted to check with you all. Thanks for humoring my post

-Josh
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Wed Oct 28, 2009, 01:01pm
APG APG is offline
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 5,889
NCAA Rule 7-3-2 e:

ARTICLE 2. A forward pass is illegal:
e. If thrown from in or behind the neutral zone after a ball carrier in possession of the ball has gone beyond the neutral zone
Penalty: 5 yard penalty from spot of foul and loss of down

NFL Rule 8-1-2 Item 1 (c):

Any other forward pass by either team is illegal and is a foul by the passing team, including the following:
(c) A forward pass thrown after the ball has crossed the line of scrimmage and has returned behind it
Penalty: Loss of five yards


I'm not sure about NFHS, so I'm sure someone will come along and give you the proper ruling.

Last edited by APG; Wed Oct 28, 2009 at 01:04pm.
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Wed Oct 28, 2009, 01:16pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 225
Legal under NFHS rules.
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Wed Oct 28, 2009, 01:19pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,593
NFHS 7-5 "forward Pass Classification"

7-5-1: It is a legal forward pass, if during a scrimmage down and before team possession has changed, a player of Athrows the ball with both feetof the passer in or behind the neutral zone when the ball is released. Only one forward pass may be thrown during the down.

7-5-2: Al illegal forward pass is a foul. The illegal forward passes are:

a. A pass after teal possession has changed during the down.
b. A pass from beyond the Neutral zone.
c. Apass intentionally thrown into an area not occupied by an eligible offensive receiver.
d. A pass intentionall thrown incomplete to save loss of yardage or to conserve time. (Exception: It is legal to conserve time by intentionally throwing the ball forward to the ground immediately after receiving a direct hand-t0-hand snap)
e. a second or subsequent forward pass thrown during the down.

7-5-3: If the penalty for an illegal forward pass is accepted, measurement is from the spot of the pass. If the offended team declines the distance penalty, it has the choice of having the down counted at the spot of the illegal forward pass or (if the illegal forward pass is caught or intercepted) of having the the ball put in play as determined by the action which followed the catch.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Wed Oct 28, 2009, 03:23pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 236
So, JdMara, in high school such a pass would be legal. Passer could go beyond the LOS, retreat back behind it and then throw the pass. As long as all rules cited by AJMC were kept.

My opionion is the NF rule writers did not consider this scenario, otherwise they would have made it clearer (at least in a footnote, sub paragraph or paranthetical)
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Wed Oct 28, 2009, 03:42pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 28
neutral zone

Man, I'm going to have to start bringing my rules book to work!!!

ajmc, I'll have to check on this but I thought I remembered some rule where the neutral zone only exists as long as the ball remains behind it. If there is such a rule then this would be illegal. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong!!!
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Wed Oct 28, 2009, 03:49pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,230
Very interesting....Thanks gentleman, I knew you wouldn't let me down

-Josh
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Wed Oct 28, 2009, 04:54pm
Archaic Power Monger
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 5,983
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRod37 View Post
ajmc, I'll have to check on this but I thought I remembered some rule where the neutral zone only exists as long as the ball remains behind it. If there is such a rule then this would be illegal. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong!!!
There is nothing in Federation rules with that statement. Could you be thinking about the free blocking zone and it only existing as long as the ball is in the zone?
__________________
Even if you’re on the right track, you’ll get run over if you just sit there. - Will Rogers
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Wed Oct 28, 2009, 06:17pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,875
Quote:
Originally Posted by whitehat View Post
My opionion is the NF rule writers did not consider this scenario, otherwise they would have made it clearer (at least in a footnote, sub paragraph or paranthetical)
No, I'm certain they considered it and they wrote the rule quite clearly to cover it. It's the NFL whose writing included a superfluous phrase, "and has returned behind it".
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Wed Oct 28, 2009, 10:48pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 28
Re: Welpe

You're right, there is no rule like that. The way things have been going for my crew this season I'm almost positive we'll see it Saturday in our playoff game. Lord, help us!
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Thu Oct 29, 2009, 02:34am
Fav theme: Roundball Rock
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Near Dog River (sorta)
Posts: 8,558
Lightbulb Canadian Ruling

Quote:
Originally Posted by jdmara View Post
Disclaimer: I am not a football official nor do I play one on tv. I did not stay at a holiday inn express last night...etc

I help out an officiating colleague every winter with his college intramural program at the University with basketball. I get out and officiate with the college students and try to get them interested in doing middle/high school officiating the following year. It's be a pretty sucessful partnership, if you ask me.

Well, this fall I decided I would try my hand at flag football although it had been a good 5-6 years since I last did a game in college. It's been an interesting learning curve to re-learn everything that I tried to forget since college, this wasn't my favorite sport in college intramurals. We had the following situation the other night:

QB A1 is flushed out of the pocket by the defenders. A1 crosses the line of scrimmage during his scramble and then retreats behind the LOS to avoid another defender. QB then completes a forward pass with both feet clearly behind the LOS.

It must be noted that this play is LEGAL in flag football. As long as this is the first forward pass of the down, this play is absolutely, by rule, a legal forward pass. No infractions have been committed.

While talking with my colleague, he was unsure of the legality of this play in "real" football. He believes that this is illegal in all football levels (NFHS, NCAA, NFL) but I wanted to check with you all. Thanks for humoring my post

-Josh
CANADIAN RULING:

Legal.
__________________
Pope Francis
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Thu Oct 29, 2009, 08:53am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRod37 View Post
ajmc, I'll have to check on this but I thought I remembered some rule where the neutral zone only exists as long as the ball remains behind it. If there is such a rule then this would be illegal. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong!!!
You are probably thinking of Case Book 6.2.6 Situation. "The zone disintegrates immediately when the kick has crossed the expanded zone or when the trajectory is such that it cannot be touched until it comes down." This is only in regard to the touching of low scrimmage kicks per 6-2-6.
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old Thu Oct 29, 2009, 09:00am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 28
RE: Bully

Yup, that's the one. Thanks for setting me straight. It was driving me crazy.
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old Thu Oct 29, 2009, 09:06am
Archaic Power Monger
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 5,983
And that is in reference to the expanded neutral zone.
__________________
Even if you’re on the right track, you’ll get run over if you just sit there. - Will Rogers
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Illegal Forward Pass? dldsooner Football 11 Sun Oct 28, 2007 10:47am
Illegal Forward Pass? nelson_28602 Football 5 Wed Sep 20, 2006 01:13pm
Illegal Forward Pass jwaz Football 8 Thu Oct 20, 2005 09:21am
Illegal Forward Pass Grey Hare Football 12 Fri Aug 05, 2005 08:10am
Pass Interference on an Illegal Forward Pass OverAndBack Football 8 Mon Aug 23, 2004 03:11pm


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:52pm.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1