Right Call or Wrong Call

[Johnny Ringo]

Watch this video - did they get it right?

YouTube - John Glenn Homecoming 2009

[Adam]

Curious, is this John Glenn from Norwalk, CA?

[JugglingReferee]

Right call. I don't think the knee was on the ground again when possession was gained.

Just another case of too much TV influence,and not understanding the rules.

[PublicBJ]

I agree, I think he was coming up when he gained control of the ball by picking it up. Unfortunate, but I think the refs made the right call.

[parepat]

It looked to me that he was down at the time he gained possession. Beyond that, how long do you wait to kill it if no one is continuing the play?

[Johnny Ringo]

This game I think was in Michigan.

[InsideTheStripe]

Originally Posted by parepat

Beyond that, how long do you wait to kill it if no one is continuing the play?

You're kidding, right? Which provision under 4-2-2 [a-k] would you use to kill a live ball in player possession?

I guess you could kill it there were enough people on the field that had a legitimate fear for the safety of the players.

[truth]

I think was was the right call. Very strange play, but heads up by the coach to yell at his kid to run. I think it could have gone either way, but I really do think that they made the right call.

[Da Official]

Question for you guys?

Since the kick never crossed the LOS, could Team A have kicked it again?

If so, does it matter that the holder's knee is on the ground?

Thoughts? (Also is Fed different from NCAA on this matter?)

[Bullycon]

Originally Posted by Da Official

Question for you guys?

Since the kick never crossed the LOS, could Team A have kicked it again?

NFHS: Yes. In fact, it does not matter whether or not the ball crosses the line of scrimmage or (expanded) neutral zone. If the player is in or behind the neutral zone prior to a change of team possession, he may make a legal kick. (6-2-1)

NCAA: Yes. However, it does matter that the kick did not cross the netural zone, as K cannot advance a scrimmage kick that does, regardless of where they recover it. (6-3-6-a)

If so, does it matter that the holder's knee is on the ground?

NFHS: Yes, it does matter. The holder is exempt from 4-2-2a when he catches or recovers the snap with a knee on the ground. After the kick, this exemption no longer applies, because he caught or recovered a kick, not the snap. (4-2-2a, Exception 1)

He may still hold the ball for a second legal place kick, but he may not touch the ground with any part of his person other than his hand or foot.

NCAA: As I read 4-1-3-b, the kicker may put his knee back down as long as a teammate is in position to kick the ball.

I'm no NCAA rules expert, so someone correct me if I'm wrong there.

[Da Official]

Originally Posted by Bullycon

Yes, it does matter. The holder is exempt from 4-2-2a when he catches or recovers the snap. After the kick, this exemption no longer applies.

He may still hold the ball for a second legal place kick, but he may not touch the ground with any part of his person other than his hand or foot.

NCAA rules are different, I think. I'll have to look those up.

I looked up NCAA Rule 4-1-3-b,

Ball Declared Dead
ARTICLE 3. A live ball becomes dead and an official shall sound his whistle
or declare it dead:
b. When any part of the ball carrier’s body, except his hand or foot, touches
the ground or when the ball carrier is tackled or otherwise falls and loses
possession of the ball as he contacts the ground with any part of his
body, except his hand or foot [Exception: The ball remains alive when
an offensive player has simulated a kick or is in position to kick the ball
held for a place kick by a teammate. The ball may be kicked, passed or
advanced by rule] (A.R. 4-1-3-I).


I would think if the play in question occurred in a NCAA game, the question of the holder's knee being on the ground would not result in the ball being declared dead...but I could be wrong.

[Johnny Ringo]

So, if the holder's knee is on the ground when he gains control - is the ball dead at this point?