Force into EZ

[kd0254]

Team A lines up from their own 5 yard line. A32 runs for a couples yards and fumbles. B99 clearly muffs the ball backwards into the endzone and then either A) A33 muffs it OOB in the EZ or B)B99 muffs it OOB in the EZ.

Ruling?

[Bullycon]

Did B99 muff the ball before or after it touched the ground?

If before, then the result of the play is a safety.
If after, then the result of the play is a touchback.

The muffing by either team after the ball was in the end zone is irrelevant.

[kd0254]

I agree with the touching in the EZ being irrelevent.

Why does it matter if it was muffed prior to or after touching the ground on a fumble? Do you have a reference?

[Bullycon]

I don't have my NFHS rulebook on hand, so I shamelessly ripped this off from kdf5's post:

Rule 2, Section 13

ART. 2 . . . Responsibility for forcing the ball from the field of play across a goal line is attributed to the player who carries, snaps, passes, fumbles or kicks the ball, unless a new force is applied to either a backward pass, kick or fumble that has been grounded.

ART. 3 . . . The muffing or batting of a pass, kick or fumble in flight is not considered a new force.

[BigGref]

obviously the key word here is GROUNDED...
What exactly is the definition of grounded?
I've heard it interpreted through the whole spectrum, from "the ball not moving at all on the ground", to as soon as it touches the ground.
thoughts?!?

[kdf5]

A loose ball is either in flight or grounded. If it's in flight it hasn't touched the ground. If it's grounded it has touched the ground. Anyone who thinks the ball is only grounded when it stops moving should have their whistle and flag taken away. See 2-1-3.

[BAlaxer]

The way I am reading it is that A32 fumbled (hitting the ground)and B caused a new force causing the ball to enter the endzone. Loose ball go out of bounds . Touchback, As ball on the 20.

[ajmc]

Originally Posted by kdf5

A loose ball is either in flight or grounded. If it's in flight it hasn't touched the ground. If it's grounded it has touched the ground. Anyone who thinks the ball is only grounded when it stops moving should have their whistle and flag taken away. See 2-1-3.

I wouldn't suggest taking anyone's whistle away, but a simple change of direction by a loose ball, that has touched the ground, doesn't automatically indicate a ,new forceas being applied.

[BAlaxer]

agreed, it should be the linesman judgement if the B player caused enough force to put the ball into the endzone. If the ball was already going there by itself then no new force and safety.