scrimmage kick

[yankeesfan]

play situation:
3rd down and long, team A in shotgun formation. quarterback gets snap and punts, the ball hits his team in the back just across the neutral zone and bounces back to the quarterback who runs with it. they only made it back to the line of scrimmmage on the play. since the ball hit his own player do we have "first touching"? also, once the quarteback recovered the ball should we have blown it dead?

[ajmc]

Originally Posted by yankeesfan

play situation:
3rd down and long, team A in shotgun formation. quarterback gets snap and punts, the ball hits his team in the back just across the neutral zone and bounces back to the quarterback who runs with it. they only made it back to the line of scrimmmage on the play. since the ball hit his own player do we have "first touching"? also, once the quarteback recovered the ball should we have blown it dead?

The issue has everything to do with where the contact, with the ball, was in relation to the NZ. If that spot was judged to be in or behind the NZ, any member of K may advance the ball in whatever fashion they choose (run, pass or Kick) if the ball was recovered behind the line.

If the contact (with the ball) was beyond the NZ, and before the kick had been grounded you would likely have KCI. If the kick had already been grounded K's touching the kick would be 1st Touching, and they could recover, but not advance the kick, if recovered beyond the NZ.

If K was first to touch a grounded kick beyond the NZ, that rebounded behind the NZ, they could legally advance the kick (if recovered behind the line), but R would be entitled to choose the results of the play, or accept the ball at the spot of 1st Touching.

The keys are where the ball was touched (behind or beyond the NZ),where the kick was subsequently recovered (behind or beyond the NZ) and whether the kick was in flight or had been grounded before being touched by K.

[yankeesfan]

the kick never hit the ground. the kick was a low liner tht hit a lineman in the back and the went into the air behind the line of scrimmage and was caught out of the air an advanced back to the original line of scrimmage. does this change anything? this all happened in a blink of an eye.

[ajmc]

Originally Posted by yankeesfan

the kick never hit the ground. the kick was a low liner tht hit a lineman in the back and the went into the air behind the line of scrimmage and was caught out of the air an advanced back to the original line of scrimmage. does this change anything? this all happened in a blink of an eye.

Let me try again, go slow and read piece by piece.

Whether the kick hit a K lineman in the butt, or was blocked by an R lineman charging the kicker doesn't much matter. What matters is the kick never went beyond the NZ. After being blocked by an opponent, or deflected off a K player, when the ball is loose follwing a kick, that is recovered behind the NZ, it can be advanced by either team.

If R should recover, the ball belongs to R, who can advance it if possible.

If K should recover, they too can advance the ball, but to remain in possession after the down ends, they have to bring the ball past the original Line to Gain. The key to focus on, is where the ball is recovered.

If the recovery is behind the NZ EITHER team can advance it.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by yankeesfan

play situation:
3rd down and long, team A in shotgun formation. quarterback gets snap and punts, the ball hits his team in the back just across the neutral zone and bounces back to the quarterback who runs with it. they only made it back to the line of scrimmmage on the play. since the ball hit his own player do we have "first touching"? also, once the quarteback recovered the ball should we have blown it dead?

It is not first touching.

6-2-6
The touching of a low scrimmage kick by any player is ignored if the touching is in or behind the expanded neutral zone. The neutral zone shall not be expanded into the end zone.

The ball is not dead when the QB recovers it. He can advance it.

6-2-3
Any K player may catch or recover a scrimmage kick while it is in or behind the neutral zone and advance, unless it is during a try.

Since the kick came on 3rd down, it's A's ball, 4th down.

6.2.3 SITUATION B: With third and 10 on K's 10-yard line, K1's punt is blocked and recovered on K's 4-yard line: (a) simultaneously by K2 and R1, or (b) by K2 who advances to K's 15. RULING: In (a), the ball is dead immediately and is awarded to R because of the joint recovery. In (b), since K may recover in or behind the neutral zone and advance, it is fourth and 5 for K from its own 15-yard line. The series for K did not end because the kick was blocked. (4-2-2e)

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by ajmc

If K should recover, they too can advance the ball, but to remain in possession after the down ends, they have to bring the ball past the original Line to Gain.

Not in this situation. The ball was kicked on 3rd down.

[parepat]

Originally Posted by yankeesfan

play situation:
3rd down and long, team A in shotgun formation. quarterback gets snap and punts, the ball hits his team in the back just across the neutral zone and bounces back to the quarterback who runs with it. they only made it back to the line of scrimmmage on the play. since the ball hit his own player do we have "first touching"? also, once the quarteback recovered the ball should we have blown it dead?

Did this play occur in Ohio by chance. If so, I think you kicked it. "Expanded Neutral Zone"

[Robert Goodman]

The original post said contact with the ball occurred "just across the neutral zone". It's not clear whether that meant the expanded neutral zone or the regular one.

[yankeesfan]

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman

The original post said contact with the ball occurred "just across the neutral zone". It's not clear whether that meant the expanded neutral zone or the regular one.

the ball went about one yard beyond the original line of scrimmage and then hit K in the back.

[yankeesfan]

Originally Posted by parepat

Did this play occur in Ohio by chance. If so, I think you kicked it. "Expanded Neutral Zone"

yes. did you see the film on this play? i am sure you know which game it was. i would like to see that play again myself.

[parepat]

I did not see it, but we both know who did. Your wing who pushed R's ball is seen running down field, not looking back. Again, that is the coach's perspective. Word is, you didn't seem to support the decision to give R the ball.

[parepat]

Originally Posted by yankeesfan

yes. did you see the film on this play? i am sure you know which game it was. i would like to see that play again myself.

Call me and I'll hook you up with a copy.