How do you identify eligible/ineligible recievers?

[Brandon Kincer]

ok I think im starting to get it. Thank you guys for clarifying what an "End" is. Now that its clear that the two ends are eligible by position, is EVERYONE who is a back eligible by position as well?

Also, If I see an ineligible downfield on pass where would I throw the flag and how would it be enforced? and If that ineligible reciever caught the pass does the ineligible downfield on pass penalty convert to illegal touching or is the opposing team givin the option?

[ajmc]

Originally Posted by jaybird

Same thing that Walt said only with 324 words instead of 16.

Have you ever considered talking to a professional, Jaybird, related to your compulsion about counting words, or are you just trying to mimmick a gnat?

[ajmc]

Originally Posted by Brandon Kincer

Also, If I see an ineligible downfield on pass where would I throw the flag and how would it be enforced? and If that ineligible reciever caught the pass does the ineligible downfield on pass penalty convert to illegal touching or is the opposing team givin the option?

The frequency of ineligibles downfield is largely related to the skill level of the players. When you do see an ineligible player downfield you want to consider where he is, what he's doing and how and why he may be there.

The first thing you want to be sure of, is that the pass is thrown and actually crosses the LOS. If a lineman has just wandered too far and is not affecting the play or actively blocking you may decide to simply mention something to him. If he is involving himself as a blocker, and he was down field BEFORE the pass was thrown, beyond the NZ, a penalty is likely in order.

Yes Illegal touching (formerly OPI) would be the second penalty he has commited. Illegal touching is a more severe penalty, adding Loss of down, to the 5 yd distance penalty for either foul, so it, alone, would be the infraction you report.

When you observe a player with an eligible # out flanked by another player with an eligible #, the inside player bears watching. As often as not, there's a good chance that the outside player lined up wrong, rendering the inside player INeligible, which the inside player may well not realize. (Make a mental note of the outside player's # as you may be asked for it).

If the inside player goes downfield for a pass, he's an ineligible downfield, and if he touches the ball it's Illegal touching. All the while he (and his coach) may have intended him to be eligible and only the action of his teammate took that status away from him, which neither player or coach may be totally unaware of.

Being prepared to inform the referee you have a foul against ineliible # XX, because he was covred by # YY can eliminate a lot of questioning.

If there is no forward pass, there's no foul and both offensive players are entitled to go downfield.

[kdf5]

Originally Posted by ajmc

A "Back", basically, is anyone not on the line and behind it (Actual definition is NF: 2.32.3).

Brandon: Rules are designated with a dash as in 2-32-2. What ajmc quoted was from the Case Book. Case book plays contain periods.

[ajmc]

Originally Posted by kdf5

Brandon: Rules are designated with a dash as in 2-32-2. What ajmc quoted was from the Case Book. Case book plays contain periods.

Actually it's just a habit of mine, kdf5, that I use periods instead of dashes when referencing rules. When I reference a Case Book play, I usually state that it's a Case Book reference.

I figured if anyone was interested enough to check the reference, they wouldn't have a problem. If you had bothered to look, you'd know there isn't a 2.32.3 reference in the Case Book, and if you were familiar with the Rule book, you'd know the definitions, themselves, are really only spelled out in the Rule book.

Forgive me if I caused you any undue confusion, if you don't understand something I've posted, ask for clarification, I'll do my best to help you out. If you're going to try and put words in my mouth, be kind enough to reference the correct reference number, dots and dashes aside, the actual reference number is what really matters.

[With_Two_Flakes]

Originally Posted by Brandon Kincer

Also, If I see an ineligible downfield on pass where would I throw the flag and how would it be enforced?

Since the enforcement for ineleigible downfield is a previous spot foul, there is no particular need to throw your flag to any particular spot.

But on the general subject of getting flags to a spot on the field....
I dont want my own newer guys wasting time by thinking about whether a particular foul requires a spot or not, so I try to encourage officials to always throw the flag toward the spot of the foul. Of course by that I mean toward the yard line of the foul first and foremost. Left or right across the field is not so important - having that too is a bonus. Of course it helps to sell the call when a flag is in the general area of the foul.
I've seen officials spend all their energy in throwing a flag 25 yds across the field and then have to go move it because it wasn't on the correct yardline. Common sense says aim for the correct yardline.

[kdf5]

Originally Posted by ajmc

Actually it's just a habit of mine, kdf5, that I use periods instead of dashes when referencing rules. When I reference a Case Book play, I usually state that it's a Case Book reference.

I figured if anyone was interested enough to check the reference, they wouldn't have a problem. If you had bothered to look, you'd know there isn't a 2.32.3 reference in the Case Book, and if you were familiar with the Rule book, you'd know the definitions, themselves, are really only spelled out in the Rule book.

Forgive me if I caused you any undue confusion, if you don't understand something I've posted, ask for clarification, I'll do my best to help you out. If you're going to try and put words in my mouth, be kind enough to reference the correct reference number, dots and dashes aside, the actual reference number is what really matters.

I didn't bother to look because I didn't care. I was simply letting him know the difference. He seems like a rookie and is asking some great questions on here and I simply distinguished one from the other. Your habit shouldn't get him confused.

[ajmc]

Originally Posted by kdf5

I didn't bother to look because I didn't care. I was simply letting him know the difference. He seems like a rookie and is asking some great questions on here and I simply distinguished one from the other. Your habit shouldn't get him confused.

It's really hard to imagine that anyone who is interested in the rules of football, or explaining them or understanding them would be confused because of dots and ashes?

[waltjp]

When the accepted conventions among officials is to use dashes for rule references and dots for case plays then yes, your methodology is confusing.

[jaybird]

Originally Posted by ajmc

Actually it's just a habit of mine, kdf5, that I use periods instead of dashes when referencing rules. When I reference a Case Book play, I usually state that it's a Case Book reference.

I figured if anyone was interested enough to check the reference, they wouldn't have a problem. If you had bothered to look, you'd know there isn't a 2.32.3 reference in the Case Book, and if you were familiar with the Rule book, you'd know the definitions, themselves, are really only spelled out in the Rule book.

Forgive me if I caused you any undue confusion, if you don't understand something I've posted, ask for clarification, I'll do my best to help you out. If you're going to try and put words in my mouth, be kind enough to reference the correct reference number, dots and dashes aside, the actual reference number is what really matters.

Interpretation/clarification:
kdf5,
This is Al's long winded version of trying to say that he made a mistake. He is apologizing and begging your forgiveness.

[ajmc]

Originally Posted by jaybird

Interpretation/clarification:
kdf5,
This is Al's long winded version of trying to say that he made a mistake. He is apologizing and begging your forgiveness.

I'm really at a loss, Jaybird, to figure out what your problem is. Adding one stupid statement after another isn't ever going to make what you offer in general, any less childish.

If you find no value in anything I offer, sorry about that, feel free to ignore me. If you have something of value to offer, which based on what you've offered thus far, is highly doubtful, enlighten me, but behaving like a little pre-teen girl who feels she's been somehow slighted, isn't going to impress anyone and really makes you look bad.

Do yourself a favor, because it really doesn't much matter to me, and get over whatever is bothering you.

[kdf5]

Originally Posted by jaybird

Interpretation/clarification:
kdf5,
This is Al's long winded version of trying to say that he made a mistake. He is apologizing and begging your forgiveness.

I don't care who you are, that's funny right there. Al has a problem of 1) admitting his mistakes and 2) an obsession with getting in the last word and 3) hurling insults as a defense mechanism. I simply pointed out that rules use dashes and case book references use dots. Everyone but him does it that way yet we're the ones who are wrong and he's right. Par for the course. Go ahead, Al, have the last word.

[jaybird]

Originally Posted by ajmc

I'm really at a loss, Jaybird, to figure out what your problem is. Adding one stupid statement after another isn't ever going to make what you offer in general, any less childish.

If you find no value in anything I offer, sorry about that, feel free to ignore me. If you have something of value to offer, which based on what you've offered thus far, is highly doubtful, enlighten me, but behaving like a little pre-teen girl who feels she's been somehow slighted, isn't going to impress anyone and really makes you look bad.

Do yourself a favor, because it really doesn't much matter to me, and get over whatever is bothering you.

Interpretation/Clarification:
Little feller got his feelings hurt!

"Lighten up, Francis."

[ajmc]

I realize you're trying really hard to be clever, kdf5, but your your about as subtle as loud fart in church, and you're just not getting it done. Being right has nothing to do with being childish, and I'm afraid it's really obvious what your intent is, no matter how badly you try and camouflage is, and thus far you're a long way from clever.

Neither you, or jaybird, have yet been able to master the skill of being effectively sarcastic, and the unfortunate result of your efforts is pushing both of you more towards acting petty and sounding frustrated.

When you're under no illusion that you're perfect, acknowledging or admitting trivial mistakes is really no big deal. You just adjust, when it matters, and move on, it's really not that big a deal. How I wish mixing dots and dashes or using too many words were my biggest mistakes, or flaws.

For two guys who are so quick to point out the most trivial errors or misstatements of others, you are super sensitive about what amounts to insults, that you perceived are being "hurled" at you. Makes me wonder how you manage to survive on a sideline, that is if you've actually been on a sideline.

I learned long ago that, "getting in the last word" is usually greatly overrated and anyone can always have the last word, but doing so just doesn't mean a whole lot, especially when the subject doesn't amount to very much.

I suspect there might be a lot you two haven't been exposed to yet, to help you understand the difference between what might be important and what really doesn't matter, but as you mature your perception should expand, at least it usually does, and there's always hope that will be true for you.

Like most of your little barbs, these last few are taking this converstaion nowhere, about nothing. It's really up to you how long this conversation continues. You can keep trying to sound glib, which truly isn't working very well for you, or you could add something worthwhile, that pertains to the original question, or you could just conclude you have nothing of any value to offer. Trust me, you won't be the first to reach that conclusion.

[kdf5]

Am I right or am I right?