Center Eligible?

[dumbref]

Originally Posted by daggo66

Where do you come up with the "snapper must be between the ends?"

I know it’s a dangerous source – Referee Magazine.

[Forksref]

Originally Posted by dumbref

I know it’s a dangerous source – Referee Magazine.

or a coach...or a father...or a fan...

Originally Posted by Forksref

or a coach...or a father...or a fan...

or the Saturday morning armchair "referee" reading the ucking flocal newspaper and reading too much into everything about the game he saw the night before.

[dumbref]

Originally Posted by Forksref

or a coach...or a father...or a fan...

This is how the Referee article reads:

“On first, second or third down, when the kicking team sets or shifts into a scrimmage-kick formation with a holder, only one lineman may wear a number other than 50-79 inclusive. That player must snap the ball and must be positioned between the ends. …”

This seemed very specific and creditable as opposed to some of their interpretations. I’ll let you decide

Originally Posted by dumbref

This is how the Referee article reads:

“On first, second or third down, when the kicking team sets or shifts into a scrimmage-kick formation with a holder, only one lineman may wear a number other than 50-79 inclusive. That player must snap the ball and must be positioned between the ends. …”

This seemed very specific and creditable as opposed to some of their interpretations. I’ll let you decide

Hmmm...I'll have to log onto the Fed's website and see if they have the specific language published there. The only thing that is available to the general public is that the language was clarified, and I was relying on memory the fact they clarified the definition of a scrimmage kick. Maybe the more specific language is password protected to keep us on edge till this summer when we all get our books.

[dumbref]

OK, during the afternoon sit down (perfect place for Referee Mag) I re-read the article. Here is the piece I missed.

“On fourth down or trys, the kicking team may use the numbering exception when it sets or shifts into either type of scrimmage-kick formation”

Since the winging gate is used mostly on trys, there shouldn’t be a major difference. It would only apply on downs 1, 2 & 3. My bad!

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by Ref Ump Welsch

Hmmm...I'll have to log onto the Fed's website and see if they have the specific language published there. The only thing that is available to the general public is that the language was clarified, and I was relying on memory the fact they clarified the definition of a scrimmage kick. Maybe the more specific language is password protected to keep us on edge till this summer when we all get our books.

The actual rule semantics are not yet published on the NFHS site.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by dumbref

This is how the Referee article reads:

“On first, second or third down, when the kicking team sets or shifts into a scrimmage-kick formation with a holder, only one lineman may wear a number other than 50-79 inclusive. That player must snap the ball and must be positioned between the ends. …”

Wow! So if you're in a scrimmage kick formation, you'll need 6 line players wearing 50-79? (Or 1 fewer than the number of linemen if you have an 8-man line, etc.?) And neither of the ends will be allowed to wear eligible numbers? Or does that apply only if they become "the kicking team" during the subsequent down?

I suspect Referee goofed.

Robert in the Bronx

[KWH]

Robert-
I think perhaps you need to read it again.
Remember the numbering requirment on a typical scrimmage play requires a minimum of at least 5 lineman to be numbered 50-79.
The new 1st, 2nd, or 3rd down exception allows the snapper to wear #35 however there is still a requirment for a minimum of at least 4 lineman be number 50-79 if the exception is utilized.

Unless I am reading something incorrectly the REFEREE article is correct...

[Bob M.]

Originally Posted by KWH

Robert-
I think perhaps you need to read it again.
Remember the numbering requirment on a typical scrimmage play requires a minimum of at least 5 lineman to be numbered 50-79.
The new 1st, 2nd, or 3rd down exception allows the snapper to wear #35 however there is still a requirment for a minimum of at least 4 lineman be number 50-79 if the exception is utilized.

Unless I am reading something incorrectly the REFEREE article is correct...

REPLY: Kevin...I saw the same thing as Robert did whe I read the REFEREE article. I think what he's pointing out is that REFEREE neglected to consider the ends. So in fact they should have said is probably:

“On first, second or third down, when the kicking team sets or shifts into a scrimmage-kick formation with a holder, only one lineman other than those players on the end of the line may wear a number other than 50-79 inclusive. That player must snap the ball and must be positioned between the ends. …”

[KWH]

Originally Posted by Bob M.

REPLY: Kevin...I saw the same thing as Robert did whe I read the REFEREE article. I think what he's pointing out is that REFEREE neglected to consider the ends. So in fact they should have said is probably:

“On first, second or third down, when the kicking team sets or shifts into a scrimmage-kick formation with a holder, only one lineman other than those players on the end of the line may wear a number other than 50-79 inclusive. That player must snap the ball and must be positioned between the ends. …”

BobM and Robert:

My apologies to Robert!
Sometimes you can't see the forest thru the trees!!!

Since both the Definition of Scrimmage Kick and 7-2-5 are being re-written, thus, I would expect to find somewhere in 7-2-5 something like:

On first, second or third down, when the kicking team sets or shifts into a scrimmage-kick formation with a holder, only one lineman may wear a number other than 50-79 inclusive and that player must snap the ball and must be positioned between the ends. He remains an ineligible reciever throught the down unless the opponent touchs the ball. Additionally, at the snap, at least four A lineman must be numbered 50-79 inclusive.

This is the intent of the rule change. If he wording does not come out as clear as expected I suspect SRH may have wording to correct it in time for the 2010 rule book.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by Bob M.

REPLY: Kevin...I saw the same thing as Robert did whe I read the REFEREE article. I think what he's pointing out is that REFEREE neglected to consider the ends. So in fact they should have said is probably:

“On first, second or third down, when the kicking team sets or shifts into a scrimmage-kick formation with a holder, only one lineman other than those players on the end of the line may wear a number other than 50-79 inclusive. That player must snap the ball and must be positioned between the ends. …”

But then it would become redundant! "...one lineman other than those players on the end of the line...and must be positioned between the ends...."

So maybe it should have said:

...of all players on A's line, only those on its ends and the snapper may wear a number other than 50-79 inclusive.

That would allow for the possibility that a player on the end of A's line and the snapper would have the same identity. But we still don't know if that's what Fed adopted.

Robert in the Bronx