Psk

[Mike L]

Originally Posted by kdf5

Here's where I'm coming from:

9-4-4 . . . Roughing the passer. Defensive players must make a definite effort to avoid charging into a passer, who has thrown the ball from in or behind the neutral zone, after it is clear the ball has been thrown. No defensive player shall charge into the passer who is standing still or fading back, because he is considered out of the play after the pass.

9-4-4 indicates it's roughing if he's hit "after it's clear the ball has been thrown". That's why I asked about the immediate cheap shot. Is that, by rule, RTP? It makes a big difference in where the penalty is enforced (usually) and if you add an auto first down.

See, that's what I'm asking too. My examples assumed the timing of the hits would not generate a RTP. Instead, they were meant to question the "ruling" by some here that where the hit happens can still generate a RTP which I don't think can be supported by rule. We all know the hit to the head is a RTP in the NFL because we've seen it announced just about every Sunday, but that rule does not exist in NFHS.

[waltjp]

Originally Posted by kdf5

Here's where I'm coming from:

9-4-4 . . . Roughing the passer. Defensive players must make a definite effort to avoid charging into a passer, who has thrown the ball from in or behind the neutral zone, after it is clear the ball has been thrown.......

9-4-4 indicates it's roughing if he's hit "after it's clear the ball has been thrown". That's why I asked about the immediate cheap shot. Is that, by rule, RTP? Roughing seems to be really nothing more than a late hit. It makes a big difference in where the penalty is enforced (usually) and if you add an auto first down.

Originally Posted by Mike L

See, that's what I'm asking too. My examples assumed the timing of the hits would not generate a RTP. Instead, they were meant to question the "ruling" by some here that where the hit happens can still generate a RTP which I don't think can be supported by rule. We all know the hit to the head is a RTP in the NFL because we've seen it announced just about every Sunday, but that rule does not exist in NFHS.

It has nothing to do with timing. It doesn't matter if the ball was just released of if the QB is standing there watching the result of his 60-yard pass. He's still a passer until the pass ends. Rule 9-4-4 further clarifies this by saying if the QB is standing still or dropping back he still can't be roughed because he's not involved in the play.

Most teams are lucky to have 1 quarterback, let along a decent backup. Protect him.

An R who I have a lot of respect for once shared this with me -

If you have to think about whether it was pass interference or not, it wasn't.

If you have to think about whether it was roughing or not, it was.

[Mike L]

Oh really? Timing has nothing to do with it? So if the passer has released the ball and a defender is close enough he can't avoid contact it's the same as a defender who takes 2 or 3 or 4 steps to hit him. Really? I guess that whole part of a defender having to make an effort to avoid contact is ignored then. Because timing doesn't matter.

[waltjp]

Originally Posted by Mike L

Oh really? Timing has nothing to do with it? So if the passer has released the ball and a defender is close enough he can't avoid contact it's the same as a defender who takes 2 or 3 or 4 steps to hit him. Really? I guess that whole part of a defender having to make an effort to avoid contact is ignored then. Because timing doesn't matter.

You're really talking about the ridiculous now. Yeah, contact can't be avoided it's not a foul. Otherwise, throw the flag.

It is illegal to charge into the passer after the ball is clearly thrown.

9-4-4 further states that "No defensive player shall charge into the passer who is standing still or fading back, because he is considered out of the play after the pass"

Seems pretty clear, if the QB has thrown the ball and is standing there watching he can not be hit until the pass ends or he makes some other move to participate in the play.