Ravens/Steelers game

[chymechowder]

I'm a sixth-year Massachusetts highschool football official. And I'm new to the forum, which I really enjoy reading. I will say, however, that at times the majority's tone can come across as a bit defensive and dismissive. this is understandable to a point, especially when non-officials discuss the rules or lambast questionable rulings. but here's a hypothetical I'd like to ask:

Say the Clark hit WAS flagged as unnecessary roughness. Also, suppose it happened on the ravens' previous possession, and after the 15 yards the ravens went on to kick a game-winning field goal.

Now lets say someone came on the forum and bemoaned the "awful" call.

Would people deride him as a "steelers fanboy" who doesn't know the rules? Would people look at the same clip and say that McGahee's head clearly snaps back as a result of helmet to helmet contact?

I guess my point is, sometimes we officials can be a little quick to automatically dismiss someone's point, simply b/c the questioner is not an official.

As for the play itself, when seeing the replay, I thought clark led with the helmet. But I also realize that the play--like so many other plays in real-time--happened so fast that it wouldn't have been a "blown call" either way, whether it was flagged or not.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by chymechowder

I'm a sixth-year Massachusetts highschool football official. And I'm new to the forum, which I really enjoy reading. I will say, however, that at times the majority's tone can come across as a bit defensive and dismissive. this is understandable to a point, especially when non-officials discuss the rules or lambast questionable rulings. but here's a hypothetical I'd like to ask:

Say the Clark hit WAS flagged as unnecessary roughness. Also, suppose it happened on the ravens' previous possession, and after the 15 yards the ravens went on to kick a game-winning field goal.

Now lets say someone came on the forum and bemoaned the "awful" call.

Would people deride him as a "steelers fanboy" who doesn't know the rules? Would people look at the same clip and say that McGahee's head clearly snaps back as a result of helmet to helmet contact?

I guess my point is, sometimes we officials can be a little quick to automatically dismiss someone's point, simply b/c the questioner is not an official.

As for the play itself, when seeing the replay, I thought clark led with the helmet. But I also realize that the play--like so many other plays in real-time--happened so fast that it wouldn't have been a "blown call" either way, whether it was flagged or not.

I think there are two points you are missing here.

There are not a lot of people saying that the call was right. Many of us have been involved in plays like this and we had a hard time determining if there was helmet contact or not. The responses are about as much about the difficulty of the call as it is whether the call was right.

And finally the next leap that a call like this makes NFL officials less competent or less talented is silly. For one the person trying to quote the rule did not even quote the rule properly. And he did not understand what he was posting. You cannot make a claim that something only applies to a defensive player and then miss the word (you quoted) that says "any player" as apart of the rule. If you do not know that, how can you know what should be called or not? Basically this was probably one of the most difficult things to rule on at fast speed as any play during the season. It is possible the officials got the call wrong, but to make the leap they are terrible when you do not know their success rate on calls or how they are evaluated are big points that were commented on.

I know this was not one of the points, but I think it needs to be said. Often during this time of year we have people that come from no where to "discuss" a play or two in a game that seems controversial. Then when they ask the question and people give them an answer, they get mad is if we do not know what we are talking about. Even though they have never officiated or know the basics that they are complaining about. It must be noted that even the media has suggested this play was totally legal (not a good source by the way), but when pressed on the OPer's knowledge, they have little to add when it comes to their experience. The same thing happens during Final Four time on the Basketball Board or during the playoffs or World Series on the Baseball Board. Then we will never see them again after they complained about this situation. Give it a month and we will never see these people again.

Peace

[PSU213]

Originally Posted by chymechowder

I'm a sixth-year Massachusetts highschool football official. And I'm new to the forum, which I really enjoy reading. I will say, however, that at times the majority's tone can come across as a bit defensive and dismissive. this is understandable to a point, especially when non-officials discuss the rules or lambast questionable rulings. but here's a hypothetical I'd like to ask:

Say the Clark hit WAS flagged as unnecessary roughness. Also, suppose it happened on the ravens' previous possession, and after the 15 yards the ravens went on to kick a game-winning field goal.

Now lets say someone came on the forum and bemoaned the "awful" call.

Would people deride him as a "steelers fanboy" who doesn't know the rules? Would people look at the same clip and say that McGahee's head clearly snaps back as a result of helmet to helmet contact?

I guess my point is, sometimes we officials can be a little quick to automatically dismiss someone's point, simply b/c the questioner is not an official.

As for the play itself, when seeing the replay, I thought clark led with the helmet. But I also realize that the play--like so many other plays in real-time--happened so fast that it wouldn't have been a "blown call" either way, whether it was flagged or not.

I don't necessarily disagree with the main point of your post--that we are less likely to accept the view of someone who is not an official. However, I think you are missing a key point there. The OP went on to say (paraphrasing here): this was a terrible call, how could the officials miss such a obvious call, and (within a few posts) this person went on to say that NFL officials are clearly the worst in sports. I think this person would have been treated a lot differently if he was not so quick to dismiss this as a terrible call made by the worst officials in sports. In addition, when his view was questioned, he became way too defensive, continued to name-call, and ignored everything constructive being said to him.

So, in short, yes, non-officials may be taken less 'seriously' on this forum. However, I have never seen an instance where a non-official is dismissed when he/she has asked a serious, un-biased question. It seems (to me anyway, for what that is worth) that they are only derided when they come here with sour grapes.

[waltjp]

Originally Posted by PSU213

I don't necessarily disagree with the main point of your post--that we are less likely to accept the view of someone who is not an official. However, I think you are missing a key point there. The OP went on to say (paraphrasing here): this was a terrible call, how could the officials miss such a obvious call, and (within a few posts) this person went on to say that NFL officials are clearly the worst in sports. I think this person would have been treated a lot differently if he was not so quick to dismiss this as a terrible call made by the worst officials in sports. In addition, when his view was questioned, he became way too defensive, continued to name-call, and ignored everything constructive being said to him.

So, in short, yes, non-officials may be taken less 'seriously' on this forum. However, I have never seen an instance where a non-official is dismissed when he/she has asked a serious, un-biased question. It seems (to me anyway, for what that is worth) that they are only derided when they come here with sour grapes.

I'll add, there are often times when a non-official comes on to ask a question about a play or ruling. The majority of the time they accept the answer and move on. The posts that become controversial are the one where the non-official starts making accusations about the pro or college level officials and disregard the information they were given.

You've heard it before, we're all officials and we'll always stick up for each other. Any regular reader of this forum knows that isn't true and we've had many debates about good or bad calls.

Want an example of a bad call in yesterday's Steeler/Ravens game??? Try roughing the kicker called against Baltimore.

[zm1283]

Originally Posted by chymechowder

I'm a sixth-year Massachusetts highschool football official. And I'm new to the forum, which I really enjoy reading. I will say, however, that at times the majority's tone can come across as a bit defensive and dismissive. this is understandable to a point, especially when non-officials discuss the rules or lambast questionable rulings. but here's a hypothetical I'd like to ask:

Say the Clark hit WAS flagged as unnecessary roughness. Also, suppose it happened on the ravens' previous possession, and after the 15 yards the ravens went on to kick a game-winning field goal.

Now lets say someone came on the forum and bemoaned the "awful" call.

Would people deride him as a "steelers fanboy" who doesn't know the rules? Would people look at the same clip and say that McGahee's head clearly snaps back as a result of helmet to helmet contact?

I guess my point is, sometimes we officials can be a little quick to automatically dismiss someone's point, simply b/c the questioner is not an official.

As for the play itself, when seeing the replay, I thought clark led with the helmet. But I also realize that the play--like so many other plays in real-time--happened so fast that it wouldn't have been a "blown call" either way, whether it was flagged or not.

Thank you. I'm just tired of football officials sticking up for their own no matter how badly a call is blown. I can promise you that if they would have flagged this play, everyone would be saying what a great call it was.

I'm not sure where the accusations of me "name calling" came from. I don't think I called anyone on here any names.

Another example was in the Florida/Miami game this year. I can't find the video of it online, but a Florida DB went up to intercept a pass by the sideline. He did come down with one foot inbounds, but he never even controlled the ball while going to the ground. The ball ended up laying on the ground next to him. They reviewed it and somehow ruled that he caught the ball and it was an interception. I wish I could find the video, because it really was inexplicable.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by zm1283

Thank you. I'm just tired of football officials sticking up for their own no matter how badly a call is blown. I can promise you that if they would have flagged this play, everyone would be saying what a great call it was.

I'm not sure where the accusations of me "name calling" came from. I don't think I called anyone on here any names.

And I am tired of people like you that have no experience officiating the sport, telling us what we should think. Or better yet when challenged with references, they get mad and claim people are not using their experience or knowledge to come to a conclusion.

Originally Posted by zm1283

Another example was in the Florida/Miami game this year. I can't find the video of it online, but a Florida DB went up to intercept a pass by the sideline. He did come down with one foot inbounds, but he never even controlled the ball while going to the ground. The ball ended up laying on the ground next to him. They reviewed it and somehow ruled that he caught the ball and it was an interception. I wish I could find the video, because it really was inexplicable.

If I recall correctly, there was debate about that play on this site (it might have been the other site) and I do not recall that people across the board stuck up for the officials. Actually, it is clear you do not read this board very much, because we discuss all kinds of plays and give opinions. Those opinions are almost never monolithic or necessarily coming from the same point of view. And it is pretty clear that you did not read this thread either, because many people made comments about the roughing the kicker call that many of us feel was "kicked" (pun intended). I am not sure what board you are reading.

Peace

[daggo66]

Originally Posted by zm1283

Thank you. I'm just tired of football officials sticking up for their own no matter how badly a call is blown. I can promise you that if they would have flagged this play, everyone would be saying what a great call it was.

That is a terrible misconception. Throughout this thread there are officials who are in disagreement. There are some things you need to understand. First we have a greater respect for someone who has studied the rules and reached the peak of their profession has opposed to someone looking on as a fan. Secondly, we will automatically give some credence to the person who made the call just because of the fact that they were right there on the field in real time and we were not. Another strong factor in this equation is that the league has not issued a fine. Many times there are hits that the officials on the field ruled as being legal, but when reviewed under a microscope by the league officials it may have been deemed illegal.

In my experience no one is more critical of an official than another official. The difference is the training involved. It's like the old adage I can beat the heck out of my brother, but no one else may dare touch him. So in a sense the first reaction will be to defend the official, but the second will be to take another look at the play.

[Adam]

Some people can't seem to see the difference between criticizing an isolated call and calling all NFL officials corrupt incompetent cheaters.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Some people can't seem to see the difference between criticizing an isolated call and calling all NFL officials corrupt incompetent cheaters.

Never mind calling ALL football officials incompetent. I'm sorry but that is such a generalized statement that it's almost comedic.

I think as a whole we're patient with fans and coaches that come in here and ask questions unless they are being disrespectful. I tend to not have a lot of patience on here for people that come in here and act like officials as a whole are incompetent, stupid or are cheaters. We deal with enough of that on the field, why do I want to put up with it here?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Welpe

We deal with enough of that on the field, why do I want to put up with it here?

You don't.

Peace

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Welpe

Never mind calling ALL football officials incompetent. I'm sorry but that is such a generalized statement that it's almost comedic.

I think as a whole we're patient with fans and coaches that come in here and ask questions unless they are being disrespectful. I tend to not have a lot of patience on here for people that come in here and act like officials as a whole are incompetent, stupid or are cheaters. We deal with enough of that on the field, why do I want to put up with it here?

Originally Posted by JRutledge

You don't.

Peace

Exactly.