The Snake Oil Salesman Is At It Again

[TXMike]

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman

I wouldn't call it cheating, just that people disagree over whether using this loophole is fair. ..... So one coach had the ostensible holder for a place kick arise slightly and then toss the ball up for the ostensible kicker to volleyball serve forward, then his team scrambled for the ball and recovered it for a touchdown.

The loophole and the play exploiting it was widely publicized and remained for the rest of the season, but it was not widely exploited as some thought. Basically everyone decided that it would be unfair to play the game that way, so they didn't.

However, that doesn't seem to be the case with A-11. There's no consensus that it's an unfair way to play.

Robert

It was not exploited back then because the coaches had integrity and honor and knew what the intent of the rule was. To say nothing of the fact that doing this intentional bat put your team at great risk, far greater risk than using the A-11 puts your team in. So that is a bad analogy anyway.

As for the "consensus" , what will it take for you to see the "consensus" is it IS an unfair and cheating way to play? How many defenders does it have even here?

[newmdref]

Ladies please. After reading all of these postings today it is clear that everyone agrees that this is NOT a good thing for football. The powers that be will cauterize that loophole and we will move on no matter what type of marketing is done in the A-11's defense....it wil be defeated and rules will be changed or more clearly defined. I know many have made comments about integrity, spirit of the game, cheating, ect. as it relates to this subject and I can appreciate that, but the bottom line is that as of this moment they are not in violation of the rule as its current verbage dictates, reguardless of your personal feelings about these individuals.

I know I am a new official but I have played football from youth through the Div I collegiate level and if you think that players or coaches aren't thinking of ways to exploit the rules or officials on damn near every play you are sadly mistaken. Players and coaches will do whatever officials and commisioners allow them to do and as often as possible in order to gain an advantage. If everyone had the utmost integrity there would be be no need for us officials. The mere fact that we exist lends itself to the fact that given the chance people will do whatever it takes to win, reguardless of the rules.

I on one level can appreciate the attempt to give his team an advantage or at least level the playing field within the rules of the game but personally I think its a joke and we have given way to much discussion time to this subject.

[TXMike]

Originally Posted by newmdref

I on one level can appreciate the attempt to give his team an advantage or at least level the playing field within the rules of the game but personally I think its a joke and we have given way to much discussion time to this subject.

And yet you chime in to extend the discussion even further.

Suggestion to those of you who think this has dragged on too long, control your fingers and do not click on the thread. Unless someone has a gun to your head, nobody is forcing you to look or chime in.

[newmdref]

Mike. I'm not trying to tell you or others what to do I'm just tired and so are many others of the "My Dad can beat up your Dad" conversation. If you want to talk about the offense as it relates football offciating great but think about a few points:

1. The more the A11 is discussed on public forums such as this one and the more controversy is stirred up from such conversation the more popular it will become thus giving momentum to those who have a vested interest in seeing it succeed. ie - you are contributing to the marketing of this offense of which you so despise

2. Some of the comments made about the individuals who have come up with this offense are slanderous in nature and if you think they are not monitoring this any many other websites like this one your sadly mistaken, especially since so much is at stake for them. The title of your thread in its self makes a slanderous inference




PS- sorry if I offended anyone, I forgot to put my smilely face after my "Ladies Please" comment

[daggo66]

Newmdref, I appreciate where you're coming from, but you're still thinking like a player. That will pass. Many of us, myself included, have a similare backround with the exception that I can add 20 years of officiating experience to that resume. You've come in rather late on this whole mess. Go back and read the many posts, including the ones from KB himself. Then go to his own web site and read the drivel there. There is nothing remotely slanderous in any of these posts. KB purposely walked up to a quiet hornet's nest and started poking it with a stick. I was the first to compare him to Billy Mayes. It is a well deserved comparison.

[newmdref]

Tom, point taken and I agree with your eval. of me with regard to player vs. official and I am here to try and learn that "Official" perspective of the game but its tough when the forum is consumed with in fighting about non-sense or why you can't say NFL as opposed to National Football League and the like. The statement you made about KB poking the nest is exactly what he wants thus my comment/point #1 in my last posting. I only bring up the slander issue because I had a family member who started and ran a national subscribed website, un-related to sports, and was shut down, sued and even subscribers were sued for comments similar in nature to the ones being made on here. Just letting people know to be careful about what you say about an individual on a public forum thats all.

Keeping mouth shut and sitting in the corner

[ajmc]

I'm afraid, newmdref, the sage advice of, "if you can't say anything nice, say nothing" has been completely forgotten by way too many of us, way too often. Part of that may be the fault of the annonimity of the keyboard and the instant nature of today's communication capabilities.

It's refreshing to see that a "new ref" still understands the benefits of simple manners and civil behavior, as well as the potential negative consequences of allowing emotions to guide behavior.

I've long maintained common sense may be the most critical attribute someone can bring to officiating, and that certainly includes how each of us decides to respond to challenge. You seem pointed in a good direction

[Rich]

Originally Posted by newmdref

Ladies please.

Let's see:

(1) Register for board.
(2) Start a post with an insult.
(3) Assume people read past the insult.

How to win friends and influence people....

[waltjp]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Let's see:

(1) Register for board.
(2) Start a post with an insult.
(3) Assume people read past the insult.

How to win friends and influence people....

Had the very same thoughts...

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by waltjp

Had the very same thoughts...

Conformist.

[waltjp]

Originally Posted by mbyron

Conformist.

I agree!

[Mike L]

I guess my thought is, why is anyone surprised that this "paper" has been produced? It's obvious (to me anyway) that the coach has a vested interest in keeping this "great innovation" alive. So of course he's going to produce something that promotes the "virtue" of it. Of course he is not going to address the reason for the existence of the numbering requirement and the exception because that topic will destroy his argument.

What the rules makers are going to have to decide 1) is there a reason for the number requirement? 2) What was the reasoning behind the exception to the numbering requirement? And 3) do we wish to close the loophole currently in the exception that allows this "great innovation" to exist or should the numbering requirement be done away with? Until such time as it seems the end of days must be coming because someone sees fit to make me one of the rules makers, I'll just enforce the rules as written and how my assoc wants it done.

If anyone cares what my opinion is, going to the NCAA wording of a kicking situation must be obvious is what is needed in NFHS.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by TXMike

It was not exploited back then because the coaches had integrity and honor

Oh, word the software here doesn't allow.