Is Ed Hoculi still the best?

JugglingReferee · #1 (**permalink**) Sun Dec 07, 2008, 05:50pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge

If Hoculi was ever the "best" it was not for a very long time. Not to say that Hoculi is a bad official, but there are a lot of very good Referees if you ask me. And if you look at the ratings, I do not think Hoculi is consistently the top guy at all. I know he has not received a lot of playoff assignments recently compared to other Referees.

Peace

What makes Hoch great is his overall contribution to the Referee spot at the NFL level. When you look back in history, 85 will be atop or near the top of the elite NFL officials. If it was such that Ed was the top every year, and everyone was playing for silver, then it'd be rather boring. Ed has received many playoff assignments, and is known to contribute to the league outside the normal expectations.

That's why he is the best.

OverAndBack · #2 (**permalink**) Mon Dec 08, 2008, 01:09pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge

if you look at the ratings, I do not think Hoculi is consistently the top guy at all. I know he has not received a lot of playoff assignments recently compared to other Referees.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

Ed has received many playoff assignments,

Actually, when you compare Hochuli to other referees over the last five years, he does quite well. Only Mike Carey has more playoff assignments since 2003, and only one more:

M Carey......6 (2 WC, 3 DIV, 1 SB)
E Hochuli....5 (2 WC, 1 DIV, 1 CC, 1 SB)
T McAulay....5 (1 DIV, 3 CC, 1 SB)
W Anderson...5 (4 WC, 1 CC)
W Coleman....5 (3 WC, 1 DIV, 1 CC)
J Triplette..4 (2 WC, 1 DIV, 1 CC)
B Carollo....4 (2 DIV, 2 CC)
P Morelli....4 (1 WC, 3 DIV)
B Leavy......4 (1 WC, 2 DIV, 1 SB)
G Austin.....3 (3 DIV)
B Kukar......2 (1 WC, 1 CC)
T Corrente...2 (1 DIV, 1 SB)
J Boger......1 (1 DIV)
J Grier......1 (1 WC)
L Nemmers....1 (1 WC)
R Winter.....1 (1 DIV)
S Green......1 (1 WC)
B Vinovich...1 (1 WC)

BillyClyde 68 · #3 (**permalink**) Mon Dec 08, 2008, 01:30pm

Where would you find the ratings?

OverAndBack · #4 (**permalink**) Mon Dec 08, 2008, 02:18pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyClyde 68

Where would you find the ratings?

They're not made public.

You can infer them in a general sense by who gets which playoff assignments. But you'll never see them posted anywhere.

Texas Aggie · #5 (**permalink**) Wed Dec 10, 2008, 11:13pm

I honestly don't understand the lovefest for Mike Carey. I think his mechanics are awful -- some of the worst in the league. I would love to know why guys think he is such a good R.

azbigdawg · #6 (**permalink**) Wed Dec 10, 2008, 11:43pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Texas Aggie

I honestly don't understand the lovefest for Mike Carey. I think his mechanics are awful -- some of the worst in the league. I would love to know why guys think he is such a good R.

Awful mechanics? really?

JRutledge · #7 (**permalink**) Wed Dec 10, 2008, 11:57pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Texas Aggie

I honestly don't understand the lovefest for Mike Carey. I think his mechanics are awful -- some of the worst in the league. I would love to know why guys think he is such a good R.

Bad mechanics? Are you serious?

You are going to have to explain this one.

Peace

JugglingReferee · #8 (**permalink**) Thu Dec 11, 2008, 07:21am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Texas Aggie

I honestly don't understand the lovefest for Mike Carey. I think his mechanics are awful -- some of the worst in the league. I would love to know why guys think he is such a good R.

I sorta agree.

Regarding Mike Carey's mechanics, I think he is too robotic. Yes, his mechanics are crisp, clear and consistent. I would take his mechanics over say, Tom White's mechanics. But I don't see any grace, or flow, with his mechanics. I prefer the mechanics of Hochuli (surprise), Steratore. IIRC, Vinovich has nicer mechanics as well. I would take Carey's mechanics over Corrente, for example. The rest, I am indifferent to, although I think Winter should have been promoted.

OverAndBack · #9 (**permalink**) Thu Dec 11, 2008, 07:30pm

I'm thinking there's at least one guy in New York who disagrees.

JugglingReferee · #10 (**permalink**) Mon Dec 08, 2008, 01:39pm

I rest my case.

bossman72 · #11 (**permalink**) Fri Dec 12, 2008, 12:37pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by OverAndBack

B Kukar......2 (1 WC, 1 CC)

I miss Bernie Kukar and his "Personal fahls" (like how he couldn't say foul correctly)

JRutledge · #12 (**permalink**) Mon Dec 08, 2008, 01:57pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

What makes Hoch great is his overall contribution to the Referee spot at the NFL level. When you look back in history, 85 will be atop or near the top of the elite NFL officials. If it was such that Ed was the top every year, and everyone was playing for silver, then it'd be rather boring. Ed has received many playoff assignments, and is known to contribute to the league outside the normal expectations.

That's why he is the best.

Remember we are talking about opinions here. And just because you think he is the best, does not make it so.

I personally do not have a dog in this fight, but I think there are a lot of good referees. And playoff assignments are very deceiving all by themselves because you have to be at a position for a certain amount of time before you can even work a single playoff game. Ed has been around longer than most. Someone could make a case that there are several officials that were better but were not eligible for playoffs. And remember Ed is very high profile, so we remember his games more than others.

Peace

OverAndBack · #13 (**permalink**) Mon Dec 08, 2008, 02:32pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Remember we are talking about opinions here. And just because you think he is the best, does not make it so.

This is absolutely true. The margin between the #1 guy and the #6 guy is probably not that large. And personal preference (as to style and deportment and whatnot) does enter into it.

What's important to them is what the ratings show and what Mike Pereira wants.

Quote:

And playoff assignments are very deceiving all by themselves because you have to be at a position for a certain amount of time before you can even work a single playoff game.

Why didn't you say that above?

Quote:

Ed has been around longer than most. Someone could make a case that there are several officials that were better but were not eligible for playoffs.

I think the only guys on the current list of NFL white hats who are not on that list (have not received a playoff assignment in the last five years) are:

Parry, Riveron, Steratore and Cheffers.

That's it.

How many of those guys are better? Demonstrably better? Riveron and Cheffers just became referees, correct? Still too early to tell if they're better, though I think Riveron is highly-regarded. Steratore is in his third year as a referee. Parry's in his second year as a referee.

I'm not sure there are "several" officials better who are being kept out by virtue of not having enough time (Riveron and Cheffers couldn't have been in the discussion before this year anyway). So we're down to Steratore and Parry. Are they better than Hochuli? I don't know.

Quote:

And remember Ed is very high profile, so we remember his games more than others.

THAT is absolutely true. Well, you seem to NOT remember his games as well as others.

(kidding, kidding, relax)

Look, Hochuli is a quality official, obviously. His body of work is an impressive one, no question. At some point, everybody's skills decline. Was the Denver thing evidence of that or just a brain fart? Only the NFL office knows for sure who's on top by their quantifiable methods. We may all have our preferences and people we admire for one reason or another.

But "the best" is a tough thing to determine. I always liked Jim Tunney, I thought he was great. But I don't know how much greater he was than Ben Dreith or Tommy Bell or Red Cashion or Jerry Markbreit. They were all pretty damn good.

JugglingReferee · #14 (**permalink**) Mon Dec 08, 2008, 02:40pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Remember we are talking about opinions here. And just because you think he is the best, does not make it so.

I personally do not have a dog in this fight, but I think there are a lot of good referees. And playoff assignments are very deceiving all by themselves because you have to be at a position for a certain amount of time before you can even work a single playoff game. Ed has been around longer than most. Someone could make a case that there are several officials that were better but were not eligible for playoffs. And remember Ed is very high profile, so we remember his games more than others.

Peace

There is evidence that the NFL disagrees with you.

Ed is known to have on his crew many officials who go on to be WHs/CCs. In fact, Ed trained Mike Carey! Also trained Morelli, Vinovich, Riveron. Over 10 years, why does the NFL choose Hochuli to have FOUR future CC learn from? He's a hint: it isn't coincidence! In addition, every year a Hochuli crew member makes the Super Bowl. Why is that? Here's another hint: LEADERSHIP.

Again, Ed is among the best NFL officials of all time. Furthermore, he is among the top Referees of all time. Just accept it.

JRutledge · #15 (**permalink**) Mon Dec 08, 2008, 06:58pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

There is evidence that the NFL disagrees with you.

Ed is known to have on his crew many officials who go on to be WHs/CCs. In fact, Ed trained Mike Carey! Also trained Morelli, Vinovich, Riveron. Over 10 years, why does the NFL choose Hochuli to have FOUR future CC learn from? He's a hint: it isn't coincidence! In addition, every year a Hochuli crew member makes the Super Bowl. Why is that? Here's another hint: LEADERSHIP.

Again, Ed is among the best NFL officials of all time. Furthermore, he is among the top Referees of all time. Just accept it.

Disagrees with me? Disagrees with me about what?

I think you have a little too much man love for Hochuli.

BTW, the NFL does not get the Super Bowl as crews. They go there as individuals. And there has been turn over since Hocuhli was last in the Super Bowl. It is not like he or others are only beating out the same officials, year in and year out.

I am sorry, but this is not a personal issue for me. I personally think Hochuli is a good official and a good guy, but that does not make him still the best when there are many other Referees that are doing a good job. And just because he once trained Carey, does not mean Carey is not better than him. We are not talking about a bunch of stiffs working in the NFL and the top guy is not that much better than the bottom guy. If they were, they would get rid of them.

Honestly I do not know who is the best and really do not care when it is all said and done. This sound more like a fan boy discussion than something based on reality anyway. But to say it is hands down Hochuli is kind of over the top if you ask me. Should we discuss if Tony Romo is better than Carson Palmer too.

Peace