Snap infraction question

[bcl1127]

So I had a play in a freshman game where the coach tried to out do himself and had the center hold onto the snap after the QB tapped the ball with his finger and hold it for about 3 seconds when a receiver came and grabbed it and ran with the ball. Now I called a Snap Infraction because the ball never left the centers had on the snap (the definition of snap has the requirement that the ball immediately leaves the centers hands). my question is with a snap infraction when is the play dead? Looking at the rule book it says that this is a dead ball foul (at least it tells you to give the dead ball signal) but I don't really think you can blow the play dead in the situation above.

Just curious as I have read about this type of play, just never actually saw it used in a game.

FYI - the coach was trying to tell me that because the QB brushed the ball with his fingers the play was legal, I told him that seeing the ball never left the hands of the snapper, it was a penalty. Then he told me that they have used the play 3 times already this year and it was never called a penalty.

[GoodScout]

I rarely believe coaches when they tell me what previous crews did.

If true, he's worked with three stupid umpires and one good one.

[kdf5]

Blow it dead as soon as it happens.

7-2-4. . . A snap shall be such that the ball immediately leaves the hand or hands of the snapper and touches a backfield player or the ground before it touches an A lineman. A scrimmage down must start with a legal snap. An illegal snap causes the ball to remain dead.

[bcl1127]

Originally Posted by kdf5

Blow it dead as soon as it happens.

7-2-4. . . A snap shall be such that the ball immediately leaves the hand or hands of the snapper and touches a backfield player or the ground before it touches an A lineman. A scrimmage down must start with a legal snap. An illegal snap causes the ball to remain dead.

That's what I thought. I was contemplating in my brain at the time if it was a snap infraction as I never expected this play to happen and by the time the brain told me snap infraction, the play was dead anyway.

[ajmc]

The snap infraction itself causes the ball to remain dead. The fact that your signal may have been somewhat delayed doesn't effect the status of the ball.

As with a majority of false start situations, the ball which remains dead because of the false start foul. actually gets snapped and very often the action of the play starts. However any action that develops is with a dead ball, regardless of when the whistle sounds.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by ajmc

The snap infraction itself causes the ball to remain dead. The fact that your signal may have been somewhat delayed doesn't effect the status of the ball.

As with a majority of false start situations, the ball which remains dead because of the false start foul. actually gets snapped and very often the action of the play starts. However any action that develops is with a dead ball, regardless of when the whistle sounds.

That's why the snap has to be "quick". You erase from memory the split second between the time the ball first moved and when its being illegal became manifest. Because that's such a short time, there's no chance of there being an intervening violation.

Robert

[ajmc]

Sorry, I just don't comprehend what you are trying to say.

[mbyron]

If the snap is never completed, then the ball never becomes live. A snap infraction is thus a dead ball foul.

A false start occurs before the snap, and that foul prevents the ball from becoming live. As we know, a whistle recognizes a dead ball but does not cause one (other than IW).

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by ajmc

Sorry, I just don't comprehend what you are trying to say.

I meant that the provision specifying that the ball "remains" dead on an illegal snap makes sense only because the snap is required to be quick. The time between when the snap begins and when it becomes clear either that it's legal or that it's illegal is so short that practically nothing else significant can happen during that interval, so that ruling it as having remained dead (technically retroactively) is no bother.

If the snap were allowed to be slow, then by the time a snap became manifest as illegal, live ball illegal activity could have occurred in that interval, and then you'd have a dilemma if the rules said that the ball was dead all that time.

Robert