Confirming a Field Goal

[Robert Goodman]

This is something where no code gives the best mechanics for the officials under the posts. An official under (or immediately behind) a post has an unbeatable view of which side of that post the ball passes, but hardly any view of which side of the other post the ball passes, if it's at all close. So why doesn't any game that has that type of goal (rugby, American football, whatever) have a signal that the official under one post can give that means, "The ball passed inside my post & over the bar."? Like for instance, at the instant the ball passes over the bar, pointing "inside", i.e. toward the other official. If they point at each other, that's a strong indication to the referee that the kick was good. Plus, the ref can sight the ball at the instant they put up their arms as add'l evidence the ball was between the posts. If either one points "outside" or down, that's a strong indicator to the ref that the kick was wide or low.

But nooooo! The codes all provide only signals that say "score" or "no score".

Robert

[Jimmie24]

Why do we need to know anything more than if the kick was good or no good?

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by Jimmie24

Why do we need to know anything more than if the kick was good or no good?

That's the output. What about the inputs to get to that determination? You can discard the scratch paper once you've finished the calculation.

If I haven't made this clear, in most cases of "good" you need 4 eyes. Neither of the post officials can determine alone whether the kick was good, only whether it passed inside their post & over the bar, so why isn't there a signal for that? If you get that signal from both of them, the inference is "good". If you get that signal from only one of them and "outside" from the other, the inference is "no good".

Robert

[With_Two_Flakes]

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman

...Plus, the ref can sight the ball at the instant they put up their arms as add'l evidence the ball was between the posts.

None of the Refs in my Association had better be doing this. They had better have their eyes on players or they won't be white hat for long. Our UK/European mechanics specifically say:-
1.Maintain a position where you can see the kicker, holder and players threatening them.
2.Wait until the ball is dead and there is no threat to players in your area of responsibility before looking to the officials under the posts to find out the result of the kick.

[jjrye22]

To make Robert happy though,
Australian Rules has extra signals. The goal umpire will give our PF signal if the ball touches a pole, and will thump his chest and point to a side if the ball passes outside of a pole.

Important because if they have 4 poles and if the player shoots between the INNER uprights they get 6, but if the ball touches the pole or goes between the OUTER uprights they only get 1 (or if a D player touches the ball, than there is our tipped ball signal).

[FTVMartin]

I just wish my white hat would take a look at us sometime. We have started to not even signal because he turns to the box and does it without even looking at us.

[Warrenkicker]

Originally Posted by FTVMartin

I just wish my white hat would take a look at us sometime. We have started to not even signal because he turns to the box and does it without even looking at us.

Throw a flag for him for roughing the kicker.

Better yet, take the ball and put it at the 20 and when he asks what you are doing tell him that you had a touchback because they missed the field goal. You've got to get this guy to let his crew make their calls. Otherwise he is just working a three-man game.

[FTVMartin]

He is in his late 70's and we think he is going to retire after the season. He's very hard to communicate with because he learned the game so long ago. He was a very good official at one time but does not keep up with changes in mechanics.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by FTVMartin

He is in his late 70's and we think he is going to retire after the season. He's very hard to communicate with because he learned the game so long ago. He was a very good official at one time but does not keep up with changes in mechanics.

I bet every association has one of those!

[dumbref]

We use the same mechanic as most has described – YES, YES – NO, NO – LJ & BJ move out together and give the signal. I have no major problem with this since everyone does it.

But does anyone find it strange that we discourage echoing whistles and other signals, while teaching this mechanic on FG & Tries?

[With_Two_Flakes]

Originally Posted by jjrye22

To make Robert happy though,
Australian Rules has extra signals. The goal umpire will give our PF signal if the ball touches a pole, and will thump his chest and point to a side if the ball passes outside of a pole.

Not seen any Aussie Rules for a while now - it regularly used to be on UK TV back in the days when the goal umpires used to wear white coats and hats that made them look like butchers. They gave a funky quick draw signal for 6 pts and then waved flags to the goal umpires at the far end of the field ( up to 200 yards away ).

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by jjrye22

To make Robert happy though,
Australian Rules has extra signals. The goal umpire will give our PF signal if the ball touches a pole, and will thump his chest and point to a side if the ball passes outside of a pole.

But IIRC you have only one goal ump at each end. If you had two, they'd probably each be stationed between an outer & inner post, and you'd want them to agree on a goal, because each would have a lousy view of the ball vs. the other's inner post.

Robert