The Official Forum - Unabated to the Quarterback + Illegal Formation

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- - Unabated to the Quarterback + Illegal Formation (https://forum.officiating.com/football/48862-unabated-quarterback-illegal-formation.html)

Quote:

Originally Posted by bisonlj (Post 537097)

We had something similar Friday night as well. A WR lined up in the neutral zone and the HL was trying to get him to step back (trying to prevent a silly penalty). At the same time, a member of the DL jumped into the neutral zone and the LJ flagged him for encroachment. The HL also threw his flag because the WR was still in the neutral zone. None of us realized that and assumed the HL had the defense in the neutral zone. Luckly we checked with him first. Since the WR was technically in the neutral zone before the DL, the foul was on the offense and we moved them back 5 yards. This was all very confusing to anyone but us because everybody saw the defense encroach but the signal was encroachment on the offense. The call was right but we may get dinged on the coach's vote.

you sure this is right? this would not be the right call in the nfl. pretty sure this is wrong because it is not illegal to be lined up in the neutral zone before the snap. who says the WR wasn't going to step back a half second before the snap? nobody knows because the defense committed a penalty FIRST. the offense basically gets the benefit of the doubt until the point of the snap (you don't see whistles before the snap on the offense, except a false start), but if the defense commits a penalty that stops the play (encroachment), then technically the snap never happened. and in this case, the ball was never even snapped right? so i don't think this was right.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PackersFTW (Post 558542)

you sure this is right? this would not be the right call in the nfl. pretty sure this is wrong because it is not illegal to be lined up in the neutral zone before the snap. who says the WR wasn't going to step back a half second before the snap? nobody knows because the defense committed a penalty FIRST. the offense basically gets the benefit of the doubt until the point of the snap (you don't see whistles before the snap on the offense, except a false start), but if the defense commits a penalty that stops the play (encroachment), then technically the snap never happened. and in this case, the ball was never even snapped right? so i don't think this was right.

I hope you noticed the part where he said "We had something similar on FRIDAY night as well". I don't think the NFL plays on Friday nights. :rolleyes:

Quote:

Originally Posted by PackersFTW (Post 558542)

As aschramm points out, my play was a high school game where the rules are different. Technically, no player can line up in the neutral zone after the ready for play. Most officials use common sense and give the player the opportunity to line up properly if he's not gaining an advantage at the time. If he's still in the neutral zone at the snap, he may kill the play and penalize the offending team if he's well into the neutral zone. This is where discretion comes into play and I think most HS officials use this same philosophy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichMSN (Post 537357)

I may have misspoken. I should've specifically said "NFHS rules." Someone from Texas or Massachusetts (or an NCAA official) can address the NCAA rules.

I'm a HS official in Mass. I don't think the NCAA rulebook uses the word "unabated" but there is this Approved Ruling for Defensive Team Requirements in Rule 7 (Snapping and Passing the Ball):

Before the snap, a Team B player crosses the neutral zone and continues his charge behind a Team A lineman and directly toward the QB or K. RULING: A Team B player who is on Team A's side of the neutral zone and is moving in a direct path toward the QB or K while he is behind an offensive lineman is considered to be interfering with Team A's formation. Penalty--Team B foul, offside. Dead ball. Five yards from the succeeding spot.

AR 7-1-5-III

So if this is a dead ball foul, it's pretty much the same as the NFL's unabated rule, right?

"Unabated" is an NFL term. I know it's used in the NALF rule book which is based of of NFL rules. It is commonly used or misinterpreted as an NCAA rule by those who don't work NCAA.. announcers included.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Theisey (Post 558595)

It is commonly ... misinterpreted ... by ... announcers ...

Shocking!!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee (Post 537084)

JugglingReferee qualified his response to be the NFL ruling. Your comment surrounded the NCAA case.

Now your going third person on us down here in the lower 48? :D

Quote:

Originally Posted by bisonlj (Post 537097)

This was all very confusing to anyone but us because everybody saw the defense encroach but the signal was encroachment on the offense. The call was right but we may get dinged on the coach's vote.

That's what you get for being helpful. :rolleyes:

Quote:

Originally Posted by PackersFTW (Post 558542)

you sure this is right? this would not be the right call in the nfl. pretty sure this is wrong because it is not illegal to be lined up in the neutral zone before the snap. who says the WR wasn't going to step back a half second before the snap? nobody knows because the defense committed a penalty FIRST. the offense basically gets the benefit of the doubt until the point of the snap (you don't see whistles before the snap on the offense, except a false start), but if the defense commits a penalty that stops the play (encroachment), then technically the snap never happened. and in this case, the ball was never even snapped right? so i don't think this was right.

If he does, then it's an illegal shift, because he wasn't set for a full second before the snap.

At any rate, his post was referencing a high school game. No player may line up in or even enter into the neutral zone before the snap. A little wiggle room is often given to WRs who line up in the zone, but then move back when they notice they have done so.