Unabated to the Quarterback + Illegal Formation
 

On a play, the offense is lined up in an illegal formation. A defensive player jumps across the line early, and as soon as the ball is snapped, the play is blown dead, because the defensive player is unabated to the quarterback. Is the offense penalized for an illegal formation?

This is an NFL question, because there is no such foul in lower levels of football.

The unabated happens before the snap, though, and illegal formation is a foul simultaneous with the snap, so no, this isn't penalized.

In a HS game on Friday, we had encroachment by the defense right after two players for the offense went in motion at the same time. The defensive coach couldn't understand why that isn't a penalty on the offense, but like my wing told him, the two in motion could always come set for a full second and then it's just a legal shift before the snap whereas the encroachment is a dead ball foul.

NFL Ruling:

Illegal formation only is a foul once the ball is legally snapped.

Unabated to the QB is foul that ocurs prior to the snap, and kills the play, preventing any snap: legal or illegal.

Therefore, there is no illegal formation foul, and only the penalty for the defensive foul is applied.

I'm pretty sure that in NFL rules, "unabated" is only a provision in the encroachment rule that causes an immediate whistle and thereby prevents the ball from being put in play, in which case illegal formation is a non-issue. In other words, if the ball was snapped, "unabated" would not kill the play, so the fact that it was whistled means that the ball remained dead, the ostensible snap being unofficial, and there's no illegal formation until the ball is put in play.

Robert

You just wanted to use the word "ostensible". :D

I'm confused a little here. Are you suggesting that in NCAA the ball is not to be blown dead if a player who is offsides has an unabated path to the quarterback? I can't recall the rulebook reference but I did see it called against OK in the WA game.
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And who said that...the announcers? :)

Who said there was no such penalty? JugglingReferee.
Who announced the unabated and blew it dead? Brian O'Cain.
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Art On The Hill Condo

JugglingReferee qualified his response to be the NFL ruling. Your comment surrounded the NCAA case.

You're right, it was RichMSN who said the foul didn't exist at lower levels. Your response just made me think everyone was agreeing with him.
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Is that why you qouted Rich? :rolleyes:

We had something similar Friday night as well. A WR lined up in the neutral zone and the HL was trying to get him to step back (trying to prevent a silly penalty). At the same time, a member of the DL jumped into the neutral zone and the LJ flagged him for encroachment. The HL also threw his flag because the WR was still in the neutral zone. None of us realized that and assumed the HL had the defense in the neutral zone. Luckly we checked with him first. Since the WR was technically in the neutral zone before the DL, the foul was on the offense and we moved them back 5 yards. This was all very confusing to anyone but us because everybody saw the defense encroach but the signal was encroachment on the offense. The call was right but we may get dinged on the coach's vote.

Is it possible the WR was there before the NZ began and was slow moving back?

Nope...he lined up in the neutral zone and was waiting for the snap. Unlike most receivers, they check with the official AFTER they are set but he did it before. The HL tried to get his attention to get him back to avoid the penalty but when the defense jumped, he didn't want the receiver to get away with what he did. The receiver was clueless.

I may have misspoken. I should've specifically said "NFHS rules." Someone from Texas or Massachusetts (or an NCAA official) can address the NCAA rules.

you sure this is right? this would not be the right call in the nfl. pretty sure this is wrong because it is not illegal to be lined up in the neutral zone before the snap. who says the WR wasn't going to step back a half second before the snap? nobody knows because the defense committed a penalty FIRST. the offense basically gets the benefit of the doubt until the point of the snap (you don't see whistles before the snap on the offense, except a false start), but if the defense commits a penalty that stops the play (encroachment), then technically the snap never happened. and in this case, the ball was never even snapped right? so i don't think this was right.

I hope you noticed the part where he said "We had something similar on FRIDAY night as well". I don't think the NFL plays on Friday nights. :rolleyes:

As aschramm points out, my play was a high school game where the rules are different. Technically, no player can line up in the neutral zone after the ready for play. Most officials use common sense and give the player the opportunity to line up properly if he's not gaining an advantage at the time. If he's still in the neutral zone at the snap, he may kill the play and penalize the offending team if he's well into the neutral zone. This is where discretion comes into play and I think most HS officials use this same philosophy.

I'm a HS official in Mass. I don't think the NCAA rulebook uses the word "unabated" but there is this Approved Ruling for Defensive Team Requirements in Rule 7 (Snapping and Passing the Ball):

Before the snap, a Team B player crosses the neutral zone and continues his charge behind a Team A lineman and directly toward the QB or K. RULING: A Team B player who is on Team A's side of the neutral zone and is moving in a direct path toward the QB or K while he is behind an offensive lineman is considered to be interfering with Team A's formation. Penalty--Team B foul, offside. Dead ball. Five yards from the succeeding spot.

AR 7-1-5-III

So if this is a dead ball foul, it's pretty much the same as the NFL's unabated rule, right?

"Unabated" is an NFL term. I know it's used in the NALF rule book which is based of of NFL rules. It is commonly used or misinterpreted as an NCAA rule by those who don't work NCAA.. announcers included.

Shocking!!!

Now your going third person on us down here in the lower 48? :D

That's what you get for being helpful. :rolleyes:

If he does, then it's an illegal shift, because he wasn't set for a full second before the snap.

At any rate, his post was referencing a high school game. No player may line up in or even enter into the neutral zone before the snap. A little wiggle room is often given to WRs who line up in the zone, but then move back when they notice they have done so.