motion

[Ed Hickland]

Originally Posted by jpenny

NHFS Play, A lines up at wide out as a back,he sets for 2 sec. he then takes one step forward and goes in motion toward the tight end on the LOS.This is to block the DE.Where does it state that this is a foul or is it? I cked ART.7 not much help.

The back cannot go in motion on the line of scrimmage, his motion must not be toward the opponents goal line. You have to interpret the rule to arrive at that conclusion as the back has to be one yard off the LOS and to get to the LOS his motion would be forward.

If the assumption is his motion is legal, that is, he is, at least, one yard off the LOS he can legally block the DE. But that legal block cannot be in the back or below the waist.

The five yards into the backfield was mentioned for the motion man. That only applies to a player who did not establish himself as a back before going in motion. This is an artifact from when a player could enter the free blocking zone and block below the waist.

[svm1010]

So we get to dig really deep into the rule book on this one.

On page 89 under the motion section you can read......
"Except for the QB under the snapper, the player in motion who started from a position not clearly behind the line of scrimmage and did not establish himself as a back by stopping or at least one second, must be at least 5 yards behind the LOS at the snap. Either a player legally in the backfield or a player legally on the end of the LOS may go in motion if these previous requirements are satisfied.

So,

A) If you have a player established as a back he can go in motion and it is legal as long as he does not motion towards the opponents goal line.

B) If you have a player not established as a back he must be on the end of the Line and he must retreat at least 5 yards into the BF before the snap occurs.

Based on the original situation I believe case A applies I have been unable to find anything that says the motion must be 1 yard off the LOS. Ed, do you have a rules reference for that?

If not I might be changing my answer..... Legal motion?

[Jim D]

Originally Posted by svm1010

So we get to dig really deep into the rule book on this one.

On page 89 under the motion section you can read......
"Except for the QB under the snapper, the player in motion who started from a position not clearly behind the line of scrimmage and did not establish himself as a back by stopping or at least one secon, must be at least 5 yards behind the LOS at the snap.

So,

A) If you have a player established as a back he can go in motion and it is legal as long as he does not motion towards the opponents goal line.

B) If you have a player not established as a back he must be on the end of the Line and he must retreat at least 5 yards into the BF before the snap occurs.

Based on the original situation I believe case A applies I have been unable to find anything that says the motion must be 1 yard of the LOS. Ed, do you have a rules reference for that?

If not I might be changing my answer..... Legal motion?

I'll go you one farther - it only says he may not be going forward AT THE SNAP so, as long a back does not simulate the start of the play, his motion can ease forward. He can start as a legal back and he could work his way forward till he is even with the line of scrimmage and then keep moving parallel down the line as the ball is snapped. I've never seen it and it would give no particular advantage to A, but I would say it is legal.

[Ed Hickland]

Originally Posted by Jim D

Originally Posted by svm1010
So we get to dig really deep into the rule book on this one.

On page 89 under the motion section you can read......
"Except for the QB under the snapper, the player in motion who started from a position not clearly behind the line of scrimmage and did not establish himself as a back by stopping or at least one secon, must be at least 5 yards behind the LOS at the snap.

So,

A) If you have a player established as a back he can go in motion and it is legal as long as he does not motion towards the opponents goal line.

B) If you have a player not established as a back he must be on the end of the Line and he must retreat at least 5 yards into the BF before the snap occurs.

Based on the original situation I believe case A applies I have been unable to find anything that says the motion must be 1 yard of the LOS. Ed, do you have a rules reference for that?

If not I might be changing my answer..... Legal motion?

I'll go you one farther - it only says he may not be going forward AT THE SNAP so, as long a back does not simulate the start of the play, his motion can ease forward. He can start as a legal back and he could work his way forward till he is even with the line of scrimmage and then keep moving parallel down the line as the ball is snapped. I've never seen it and it would give no particular advantage to A, but I would say it is legal.

First, there is an implicit assumption motion begins when the player starts and that the motion is indeed parallel or backwards. The words "at the snap" are used to signify the motion can be stopped before the snap. Example, A45 after the offense is set goes in motion toward the LOS, then stops for a full second before the snap. His motion would be legal because he terminated it and was set for a full second before the snap.

As to the rule reference 7-2-2 defines requirements for a player to be a lineman. The player in motion is not a lineman by definition as he is not facing his opponent goal (2-30-9), nor, is he truly a back as he does have a part of his body breaking the imaginary line parallel to the LOS through the waistline of the center (2-30-3).

Therefore, A's motion is illegal.

[bisonlj]

Originally Posted by Ed Hickland

First, there is an implicit assumption motion begins when the player starts and that the motion is indeed parallel or backwards. The words "at the snap" are used to signify the motion can be stopped before the snap. Example, A45 after the offense is set goes in motion toward the LOS, then stops for a full second before the snap. His motion would be legal because he terminated it and was set for a full second before the snap.

As to the rule reference 7-2-2 defines requirements for a player to be a lineman. The player in motion is not a lineman by definition as he is not facing his opponent goal (2-30-9), nor, is he truly a back as he does have a part of his body breaking the imaginary line parallel to the LOS through the waistline of the center (2-30-3).

Therefore, A's motion is illegal.

If he stopped his motion and became set for one second before the snap, he is no longer in motion; it's now just a shift. I never saw anything that said he went so far forward that he was breaking the waistline of the center. Unless he ends up in motion obviously on the line of scrimmage, this would be too technical of an interpretation and looking for trouble.

[Ed Hickland]

Originally Posted by bisonlj

If he stopped his motion and became set for one second before the snap, he is no longer in motion; it's now just a shift. I never saw anything that said he went so far forward that he was breaking the waistline of the center. Unless he ends up in motion obviously on the line of scrimmage, this would be too technical of an interpretation and looking for trouble.

The original post stated he was in motion toward the TE on the LOS. From that description he had to be going forward which would be illegal at the snap and the fact he was in motion on the LOS trying to block the DE lead me to believe he was moving down the line making him neither a back or a lineman.

Remember the definition for a lineman and the definition for a back. He meets neither. I think he is in no-man's land where only the player under the snapper can be legal.

Frankly, this is something you might expect to see in youth football not high school. Of course, I love youth coaches whose knowledge of the rules comes from the talking heads on network TV!

[Mregor]

Originally Posted by Ed Hickland

The original post stated he was in motion toward the TE on the LOS. From that description he had to be going forward which would be illegal at the snap...

No he does not have to be going forward. OP said he was a wideout. Moving towards the TE on the LOS could also mean he was moving parallel to the LOS from the wideout position towards the middle of the field and the TE. That's the way I read it along with most others judging by their replies.