Invalid Signal and Punt Receiver Gets Leveled (NFHS)

[KWH]

Originally Posted by FredFan7

NFHS rules:

Fourth and 10 for team K at its own 40.

R5 gives an invalid fair catch signal at his own 20. After R5 catches the ball,
b) K44 hits R5 while the ball is ALIVE drawing a kick-catching interference foul.

NFHS rules.

Once R5 gives ANY signal and catches the ball the play is over.
Thus, it is not possible for K44 to "hit" R5 (after the catch and) while the ball is ALIVE!

Ruling for b) Invalid fair catch signal against R5, Dead Ball Personal Foul against K44.
Generally, R would want to keep the ball and thus both fouls would be enforced!

[FredFan7]

Chump edit so it makes sense.

You're right, you can't have KCI AFTER a valid or invalid fair catch.

[Mike L]

Practically speaking, on an invalid signal where are you going to attempt to place the spot of the foul? The situation I'm thinking of is when the R is running up to get the short kick and makes an invalid signal. Since I would think you are going to allow him the opportunity to make the signal valid sometime before the catch, you are probably going to hold your flag until the catch. If he never does make it valid, how do you establish the actual spot of the foul, it now being somewhere behind the actual catch? Or will it just become the dead ball spot of the catch for practical purposes.

As for the whistle comments, I'm beginning to think the pendulum is swinging too far the other way by adopting this whistles are not needed and we are approaching a situation as bad as before when whistles were getting blown all the time creating problems. The quote was "whistle as soon as possession is attained". Now then you can make all sorts of comments what you should be careful of here, but there is nothing wrong with that taken as it is. Yes, you better not anticipate the catch, yes you better make sure the catch is made and yes that means you might be a step slow with the whistle. But to say you are not going to blow any whistle to protect the guy and it's up to players to realize what's happening during the chaos of the game of football, especially during the extra chaos of kicking situations, is just asking for a game to get out of hand. The entire idea behind whistle control "rules" is so you are not blowing it when it shouldn't be blown, but I don't think we should be using it as an excuse to not blow it when it is needed and hiding behind some bs like "the players should know when it's dead".

[Bob M.]

Originally Posted by Mike L

...As for the whistle comments, I'm beginning to think the pendulum is swinging too far the other way by adopting this whistles are not needed and we are approaching a situation as bad as before when whistles were getting blown all the time creating problems.

REPLY: I'll be the last one to say we shouldn't blow a whistle because the play kills itself, but...I agree 100% with JRutledge and RichMSN and OverandBack on this situation. Blowing a quick whistle after a fair catch signal in a misguided attempt to protect the receiver is a train wreck waiting to happen. Everybody in the **** stadium knows the ball is going to be dead when he catches it, and nobody from the kicking team with any amount of cranial matter is going to hit him. Let this play kill itself completely. I (as a BJ) don't blow my whistle until the receiver straightens up and begins to look to give me the ball.

[Mike L]

I guess the whole part of making sure the catch is made and being a step slow with the whistle didn't register.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by FredFan7

Fourth and 10 for team K at its own 40.

R5 gives an invalid fair catch signal at his own 20. a) After R5 catches the ball, K44 hits R5 drawing a DEAD BALL personal foul
b) K44 hits R5 while the ball is ALIVE drawing a kick-catching interference foul.

All fouls are accepted.

Who has the ball and where?

CANADIAN RULING:

Our equivalent to the fair catch rule designed to afford the punt receiver some protection is the Restraining Zone rule - the 5 yard halo around R.

No offside-to-the-punter K player can be inside a 5 yard halo centered at R5 when R5 first touches the ball. It's a 5 or 15 yard penalty, depending on if the ball had bounced first, and/or if the K player immediately participated in the tackle. It the descriptions above, if K was inside the 5 yard halo at the PFT, there will be a 15 yard Restraining Zone penalty applied. Result: B 1D/10 @ PFT+15.

[ajmc]

You are technically correct MikeL, but I think you're splitting hairs, that really doesn't much matter. NF: 2.9.1 does use the language,"...under conditions in which the receiver forfeits the right to advance the ball in return for protection from being blocked or tackled by an opponent."

The point, however, was that it's the Receiver who initiates the action and is responsible to signal clearly and in such a manner that the defense can reasonably respond to the signal.