Change of Possession, untimed down??

[Forksref]

Don't have my rule books with me, but I recall that the Fed rule was changed to eliminate the following:

A is behind by a few points. With time running out in the game, A player is running toward the EZ and there is an A player downfield beyond the last B player. As the B player comes up to make the tackle, A player with the ball stops and throws a pass to the B player who gets an easy score. The score is disallowed, and assuming that it was not 4th down, A gets another down (not a replay) which is untimed if the clock had run out. The foul is enforced from where he threw the pass (end of the run).

Unfortunately, if this situation had followed a COP, then B is not covered in the rule. As in most rule changes, the intent is there to eliminate an unfair situation, but it was not thought through enough to cover a similar situation. It can easily be corrected.

[mikesears]

Originally Posted by DrMooreReferee

A's ball with 10 seconds left in the game. B22 intercepts A's pass at midfield and is returning it when time expires. B22 hands the ball forward to B33 at the 10 yardline of A. B33 then scores a TD.

Now, we know that we have a foul for illegal forward handing. And we know the TD won't count. Question is, do we have an untimed down? I think its a good question and I'm unsure what to think here. Yes, the foul by B has a loss of down aspect to it. However, that LOD aspect won't be in effect here, because we had a change of possession. So, do we ignore the LOD aspect of the foul for the purposes of deciding whether B gets an untimed down or not?

After much deliberation within myself, I think that we have no untimed down here.
3-3-4B is the rule I'm looking at. It says... fouls that SPECIFY a loss of down. It doesn't say that the LOD aspect has to be enforced, it just says fouls that SPECIFY a LOD.

Would be very interested to see what everyone thinks about this.

I asked the Illinois High School Association (IHSA) last year for a ruling on this. According to the Mr. Dave Gannaway at the IHSA, team B would be entitled to an untimed down because the foul does not specify a loss of down for B. I don't agree with the IHSA on this but must live with the ruling given to me. I don't know if they sought a ruling from the NFHS on this.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by mikesears

I asked the Illinois High School Association (IHSA) last year for a ruling on this. According to the Mr. Dave Gannaway at the IHSA, team B would be entitled to an untimed down because the foul does not specify a loss of down for B. I don't agree with the IHSA on this but must live with the ruling given to me. I don't know if they sought a ruling from the NFHS on this.

So then why don't you contact the NFHS yourself?

[mikesears]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

So then why don't you contact the NFHS yourself?

Any time I have tried to contact the NFHS, I get the standard, "Ask your State Association for an answer before seeking a ruling from the NFHS". I've got the ruling from my state and I guess I assumed they would have gotten an answer from the NF on it if they weren't sure.

[Referee]

Originally Posted by mikesears

Any time I have tried to contact the NFHS, I get the standard, "Ask your State Association for an answer before seeking a ruling from the NFHS". I've got the ruling from my state and I guess I assumed they would have gotten an answer from the NF on it if they weren't sure.

Upon Further Review...

The lackey's over at the NFHS are nothing more than eunichs...

Why pay them any fees at all? They are like a black hole.