Coaches coming to Ref Assoc Meetings

zebraman · #1 (**permalink**) Fri Apr 04, 2003, 01:11pm

For years, our local high school official's assocations (both boys and girls) have often had coaches (we rotate to get a different one each time) come to some of our meetings and give talks. We leave it pretty open-ended as to what they can talk about. The talks have always been real positive and seem to help communication between coaches and officials. They generally express an appreciation for how hard we work and then give their take on things they have seen in officials that they like (open communication etc.) as well as some of their frustrations. It's never deteriorated into a complaint session nor has a coach ever used it to try to get us to call games "certain ways." Our members have always thought these meetings are great and the coaches always appreciate the opportunity as well. I have even noticed that some of our more "intense" coaches have actually become much better behaved after they've attended one of our meetings and had the opportunity to see that we talk about rules and scenarios to improve rather than just plotting and scheming against the coaches. :-)

However (you knew that was coming), this year we seem to have a problem. One coach protested that we are establishing a relationship with the coach who attends by doing this and it's unfair. Since I am our association president, I called the A.D. at his school to try to work things out. I offered to invite ALL coaches next year, but the A.D. said that not all would be able to attend so that's unfair. His concern seemed to be that we had invited the coach to a meeting DURING the season so I offered to invite a coach to one of our pre-season meetings instead. The A.D. still maintained that it would be unfair since not all coaches would be able to attend.

Do your local associations invite coaches to speak at your meetings? Has it ever been a problem? Are we indeed being unfair?

Thanks in advance,

Z

Mark Padgett · #2 (**permalink**) Fri Apr 04, 2003, 01:18pm

One association I belonged to decided to invite a coach to address us. He is a former NBA player. His "talk" consisted of 10 minutes on how he hated it when officials called double fouls against post players early in the game.

I found out later that his son had just played in a game in which he picked up two early fouls in just that manner and eventually fouled out in the 3rd quarter of a close game. His team lost that game.

We didn't invite any more coaches to attend meetings.

In my rec league, we tell all our coaches (over 200 head and assistant coaches) that they are welcome at the referee meetings. No one has ever come, although some of our refs attend the mid-season coaches meeting.

rockyroad · #3 (**permalink**) Fri Apr 04, 2003, 01:30pm

We have had coaches come to our training sessions - usually in October or so, or come to post-season meetings, but never during the season...basically for the reasons you stated - there becomes a perception that the coaches who came have a "inside track" with the officials...if you don't want to give the practice up, invite the disgruntled coach to come and present next year...if he turns it down, tell his AD "Oh well, guess it's not that big a deal after all."

JRutledge · #4 (**permalink**) Fri Apr 04, 2003, 04:05pm

If that coach does not want to attend, forget him. You offered and invitation, and offered to other coaches. If you are concerned about that, you do not have enough to worry about in my opinion.

My associations do the same thing. We have many situations were coaches can participate in your meetings, our camps or any social function. It does not mean they always attend or participate. We are not a closed society, we want coaches to understand our training and our point of view. And knowing their point of view and training helps us too.

Peace

woolnojg · #5 (**permalink**) Fri Apr 04, 2003, 04:08pm

zebraman-
Are your meetings for officials and invitee's only?
Are they open to all officials and coaches to attend?
If it is the first, then you may be perceived as playing favorites.
If it is the latter, then that coach and AD have the problem. If it was as important as they claim, they would find a way to be there.

JAdams · #6 (**permalink**) Fri Apr 04, 2003, 04:41pm

The Middletown (OH) Basketball Officials Association has a standing "open door" policy regarding visits by coaches. All area coaches are invited to attend all association meetings. They don't need an actual invitation. This policy is printed in the association's handbook that is distributed to members and all area schools. Each year we proactively invite 2-3 coaches to speak to us, although we're lucky to get even one to actually show up. I'm not sure how the invitees are selected, however. When they do show, they usually speak for 5-10 minutes, and it usually encourages a good exchange between him/her and the officials. Common themes are the need to be on time for each game and to call it consistently.

zebraman · #7 (**permalink**) Fri Apr 04, 2003, 06:05pm

Quote:

Originally posted by JRutledge
If that coach does not want to attend, forget him. You offered and invitation, and offered to other coaches. If you are concerned about that, you do not have enough to worry about in my opinion.
Peace

For Rut:

As "da Prez", I have more than enough to worry about and work on. This situation affects all our officials because of how effective it has been in the past. The A.D. that I talked to is head of the A.D. association. I would imagine that you can understand that we like to work with our A.D.'s rather than butt heads. I was just trying to get a feel for whether or not inviting "rotating coaches" to official's meetings is pretty standard stuff or if we were doing something fairly unusual.

For woolnojg:

Yes, anyone can attend our meetings but I doubt that a coach would know when and where we meet unless we specifically told them and invited them.

Z

rainmaker · #8 (**permalink**) Fri Apr 04, 2003, 06:20pm

Quote:

Originally posted by JAdams
The Middletown (OH) Basketball Officials Association has a standing "open door" policy regarding visits by coaches. All area coaches are invited to attend all association meetings. They don't need an actual invitation. This policy is printed in the association's handbook that is distributed to members and all area schools. Each year we proactively invite 2-3 coaches to speak to us, although we're lucky to get even one to actually show up. I'm not sure how the invitees are selected, however. When they do show, they usually speak for 5-10 minutes, and it usually encourages a good exchange between him/her and the officials. Common themes are the need to be on time for each game and to call it consistently.

John -- thanks for the suggestions about camp. Yes, I will have video.. . Thats the most important part about camp, Ibelieve. Like the suggestion about the magnetic board. Your e-mail doesn't seem to be working, which is why I've responded here.

JRutledge · #9 (**permalink**) Fri Apr 04, 2003, 06:32pm

Quote:

Originally posted by zebraman

I would imagine that you can understand that we like to work with our A.D.'s rather than butt heads. I was just trying to get a feel for whether or not inviting "rotating coaches" to official's meetings is pretty standard stuff or if we were doing something fairly unusual.

OK......who said anything about butting heads?

All I said was forget him. You offered the invititation, he did not accept and gave you a reason for not wanting to attend.

A week from today we offer the State Championship coaches to attend our annual banquet. If they attend or not attend, we do not take offense. Some have very good reasons for not being able to show up and when they do we welcome them with open arms. What else can you do?

You cannot hold a gun to his head and demand he attend. And if you have to talk to the AD to get this coach to attend, it is not worth the trouble. All you have to do is accept his reason for not coming and move on. Being the Prez or not the Prez is not going to change that.

Peace

Zebra1 · #10 (**permalink**) Fri Apr 04, 2003, 07:11pm

Our local association in Northern Indiana, we have a coach's panel. We have about 4-5 coaches throughout the area, different ones every year, and the floor is open for amyone to talk. Much like our meetings. We are probably the most respected association in the state, putting the most officials into the state tourney. So, we pretty much get the coaches we invite to come because they know it will be "worth their time." This was the first year I went, being a newer guy, first year in the tourney, and I was very impressed of the subjects and scenarios that came up. I don't think coaches get offended here, they're turn will eventually come up. They are also, among non-member officials, welcome in all of our rules meetings. Like someone else said, they are welcome, but might not know when or where the meeting is held.

zebraman · #11 (**permalink**) Fri Apr 04, 2003, 08:03pm

Originally posted by JRutledge

OK......who said anything about butting heads? All I said was forget him. You offered the invititation, he did not accept and gave you a reason for not wanting to attend.

Sorry if I wasn't clear. This A.D. (who is the head of the A.D. association) wants to keep us from having ANY coaches attend any of our meetings. He carries a pretty big hammer and it sounds as if they are formally going to ask us to not have any coaches attend any of our meetings. We are thinking about going to the state official's assoc and/or the state activities assoc. since we have been unable to work it out with him directly. So yes, there will be some head-butting if it comes to that.

Z

JRutledge · #12 (**permalink**) Fri Apr 04, 2003, 10:43pm

Quote:

Originally posted by zebraman

Sorry if I wasn't clear. This A.D. (who is the head of the A.D. association) wants to keep us from having ANY coaches attend any of our meetings. He carries a pretty big hammer and it sounds as if they are formally going to ask us to not have any coaches attend any of our meetings. We are thinking about going to the state official's assoc and/or the state activities assoc. since we have been unable to work it out with him directly. So yes, there will be some head-butting if it comes to that.

Z

Now that is much clearer. But how can this one person prevent coaches from attending your meetings? If I am a coach and he is not my AD, what the hell can he do to me?

Peace

Adam · #13 (**permalink**) Sat Apr 05, 2003, 03:13pm

No one can prevent coaches from attending open meetings.. I think the objection seems to be to asking coaches to speak. That said, perhaps an answer would be a rotating schedule. It seems to me the benefits outweigh any drawbacks. Off court communication between coaches and officials is a good way to foster healthy on-court communication.
Sounds like this particular A.D. is having a power trip, and probably thinks he lost a game because the officials were favoring a coach who'd spoke at one of those meetings. Perhaps it should be suggested to him that he attend a meeting where one of the other coaches speaks before he make a blanket judgment like that.

Or, you could make him an offer he can't refuse.

Mark Padgett · #14 (**permalink**) Sat Apr 05, 2003, 04:07pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Snaqwells
No one can prevent coaches from attending open meetings..

Says who? Association meetings usually are open only to members and invited guests.

Besides, having coaches address your meeting is a waste of time. How many of your officials speak fluent jibberish, anyway?

JRutledge · #15 (**permalink**) Sat Apr 05, 2003, 04:15pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Mark Padgett

Says who? Association meetings usually are open only to members and invited guests.

Speak for yourself and your area. Most of the associations around here or ones that I have been a member of, have open meetings. Anyone that is a member can attend. They are not going to card you at the door. I am sure there are many that have "closed" meetings and others that do not.

Peace