The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Football
Register FAQ Community Calendar Today's Posts Search

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Tue Nov 20, 2007, 09:08am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 150
Diversity

Quick question for everyone, regarding a somewhat touchy subject. Diversity.

I'm curious what other folks around the country are experiencing with regard to placing minorities in state final football games.

Where I'm from we have a ratings system.This rating system has 5 components. 1-test score, 2-years of experience, 3-peer rating, 4- classroom meetings, 5-cooperation. Its a system that has been in place for about 60 years. We've never had a problem. The games are scheduled by rating. At the end of the year, the higher rated guys get the playoff games right up to the finals. What we're experiencing now is that minorities are being placed into spots for the semi-finals and finals despite where they are rated. In other words, these guys are getting games that SHOULD be earned based on the fact that they are minorities.

Are there any other areas of the country where this type of thing is occuring? And how is it being handled? I can see this thing beginning to fester and eventually it will need to be addressed before we lose a large number of officials who just aren't wiling to put up with it.

I know that diversity is something that is everpresent in all areas of life. So, I guess I shouldn't be surprised with the recent events. But it just seems like things should be done fairly. And if the system needs to be tweaked or adjusted in some ways to make sure it doesn't show favoritism, then fine. I just think it stinks to reward someone based on the color of their skin. And I feel like if I were a minority, I wouldn't want something served up to me on a silver platter without my EARNING it. But maybe thats just me.

As I said, I know this is a touchy subject. But I'm anxious to hear everyone's opinion.
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Tue Nov 20, 2007, 09:22am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 415
You appear to have a system that would work to prevent diversity; three of your criteria - years of experience, peer rating and cooperation (whatever that is), would tend to give higher ratings to the good ole boys who have been around for ever. Minorities tend to be newer to the mix. Given this rating system, it would be easy for all the finals to assigned to crews comprised of Billy Bob and Jimmie Bob and Larry Bob and the like.

Someone in your state is smart enough to see that the system that has been in place for 60 years and "has never caused a problem" is, in fact, causing problems. Their response is to over-ride the system rather than fixing it, which is causing some hard feeling. I think they'd be better off throwing out your old rating system and making a new one.
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Tue Nov 20, 2007, 09:59am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 150
Let me clarify those 2 components.

Years of experience--- we get points for years of experience. Those points are awarded after each year you complete,(up to 7). In other words, whether you have 7 yrs in or 50 yrs in, its all the same. The points you get for experience make up 15% of your rating. So, its 15 points that you get.

Peer review--- I'll admit that this is one area that COULD be looked at as being suspect. This is how it works. You work a game with a 5 man crew. The other 4 guys on your crew will submit a rating on you for that game you just worked. A scale of 1-10 is used. This makes up 25 percent of the overall rating. So, if you got all 10s in a given year you'd get 25 points added to your rating. I can see where some might say that this an area where " good ol' boys" (as you put it) could be mean to minorities and give them bad ratings. Now, this isn't what happens. But I would rather just give all minorities a standard 25 for this part of the rating if it was an issue. Rather than serving up a state final on a silver platter.

The part of the rating system that creates the seperation is....(drumroll please) YES.... The Exam!!!!

Oops, almost forgot. Cooperation. This is just a 5 point part of the system. Everyone gets these 5 points unless you're just really difficult to get along with and cause trouble. But like

The exam makes up 40% of the rating. And folks who STUDY tend to make well on the exam. Folks who do not STUDY tend to make not as well.

So, why make folks study to better themselves??? There's no need, we'll just reward based on skin color.

Last edited by DrMooreReferee; Tue Nov 20, 2007 at 10:17am.
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Tue Nov 20, 2007, 10:29am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 415
If the question is, are outside factors like minority vs. non-minority, city vs. rural, one geographic area of the state vs. another geographic area taken into consideration when making playoff assignments, and do those considerations cause better officials to sometimes sit home while lesser officials work? Of course they do.

Can the state ignore those considerations? No chance. That's the reality of life. Do the best you can and don't worry about it.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Tue Nov 20, 2007, 11:01am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,305
In Texas, the 2 schools have to agree on the Chapter that will ref the game and on the specific officials who will work it. If they cannot agree, then the state athletic governing assn (UIL) assigns a Chapter and that assignment often comes with a mandate like 2 Anglos, 2 Hispanics, 1 Black. Sometimes the schools can even agree to a specific racial/ethnic makeup of the crew.
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Tue Nov 20, 2007, 11:03am
Rich's Avatar
Get away from me, Steve.
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 15,783
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrMooreReferee
Let me clarify those 2 components.

Years of experience--- we get points for years of experience. Those points are awarded after each year you complete,(up to 7). In other words, whether you have 7 yrs in or 50 yrs in, its all the same. The points you get for experience make up 15% of your rating. So, its 15 points that you get.

Peer review--- I'll admit that this is one area that COULD be looked at as being suspect. This is how it works. You work a game with a 5 man crew. The other 4 guys on your crew will submit a rating on you for that game you just worked. A scale of 1-10 is used. This makes up 25 percent of the overall rating. So, if you got all 10s in a given year you'd get 25 points added to your rating. I can see where some might say that this an area where " good ol' boys" (as you put it) could be mean to minorities and give them bad ratings. Now, this isn't what happens. But I would rather just give all minorities a standard 25 for this part of the rating if it was an issue. Rather than serving up a state final on a silver platter.

The part of the rating system that creates the seperation is....(drumroll please) YES.... The Exam!!!!

Oops, almost forgot. Cooperation. This is just a 5 point part of the system. Everyone gets these 5 points unless you're just really difficult to get along with and cause trouble. But like

The exam makes up 40% of the rating. And folks who STUDY tend to make well on the exam. Folks who do not STUDY tend to make not as well.

So, why make folks study to better themselves??? There's no need, we'll just reward based on skin color.
So has anyone ever looked at the correlation between how well someone scores on the exam and how well they perform on the field? In my experience there are some that score really, really well on the exam that I wouldn't hand a flag and whistle to.

The diversity movement/push is a fact of life. Qualified, 20-year basketball officials in my state have had to watch a 4th year woman work the state tournament and I know African-American officials that get many trips to the state tournament before well-qualified non-minority people get chosen even once. It sucks to be a white male these days, but you can only control those things that you can actually control and I figure maybe I'll get one someday and maybe I won't. In the little realm I assign, I will never choose anyone other than the right person for the job, regardless of gender or skin color.

Last edited by Rich; Tue Nov 20, 2007 at 11:07am.
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Tue Nov 20, 2007, 12:17pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Wichita, KS
Posts: 945
The world does change and no matter what we think of it change happens. Just when you think you have the system figured out it will change.

A guy I know was working AFL2 and was rewarded with the championship game a few years back. He didn't look like anyone else on the crew that night. After that when the league was looking for officials to move up into AFL he was not selected while other officials at his position who also didn't look like him but were scored lower were selected to move up. This, as well as other reasons, apparently caused him to back away from trying to move up.
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Fri Nov 23, 2007, 01:37am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,988
Guess I'm lucky that in my province the amount of visible minorities who officiate football can be counted on one hand.
__________________
Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:37pm.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1