Too many penalties

[voiceoflg]

A question from a broadcaster. We did a crosstown rivalry game last night that was a rollercoaster with the twists and turns, big plays and turnovers. Good guys take the lead 24-20 on a trick play touchdown with 7:00 left in the game, and intercepted the opponent's pass in the end zone with :30 left.

But there were so many penalties in that game both ways. There were only two or three that neither myself, color commentator nor sideline guy saw. But the other 100 (not sure the exact number but it seemed like it) were seen by at least one of us. We saw virtually every infraction in the book, and only a few of them more than twice!

Have you guys had a game like that where it seems like every other play has a flag thrown? I know you aren't paid by the hour, so games like that must drive you crazy.

[Ed Hickland]

Sometimes you don't really notice how many flags are thrown.

I watched one of our games on TV a few weeks ago and heard the announcer say "...our referee has been busy today." Little did I notice the number of penalties that had been called.

[voiceoflg]

I went back and listened to the webcast of the game (NFHS) and was surprised how many calls I got right. For example, 2nd and 14, A commits an illegal shift and after the tackle, B commits a PF late hit. Our sideline guy said automatic 1st down on the PF and my color commentator said they offset. I said I didn't think so, that both should be assessed making it 2nd and 4. Indeed that is what happened. I found a few more like that thanks to you folks educating me via this board. Sadly because I try to get the rules right, I won't get hired by a national network.

[TXMike]

Guess that is a NFHS deal??? The dead ball PF would be an auto 1st in NCAA

[Kirby]

Originally Posted by TXMike

Guess that is a NFHS deal??? The dead ball PF would be an auto 1st in NCAA

Yes, that is an NFHS rule. The only fouls by B that will result in an AUTO 1st down are Roughing the Passer, Roughing the Snapper, Roughing the Kicker or Holder and DPI.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by TXMike

Guess that is a NFHS deal??? The dead ball PF would be an auto 1st in NCAA

Leave it to Texas to think the NCAA rulebook is the default

[Texas Aggie]

It should be.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Leave it to Texas to think the NCAA rulebook is the default

Everything's bigger in Texas.

I had a few games this season that it seemed we couldn't keep the flags in our pockets. When you have teams playing sloppy and dirty, that is what happens unfortunately.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Texas Aggie

It should be.

48 states disagree with you.

[PSU213]

Our BJ has made the comment that 'we don't commit the infractions, only call them.' In theory, it's nice to say "let them play," and I would say that, when watching a game as a fan, I prefer a game with fewer fouls than more fouls. That being the case, in a game I officiate, if the teams jump offsides, commit many illegal blocks, 'haul' down receivers when the ball is in the air, etc., I am going to make the call, and the last thing I think about on the field is "boy, there has been a lot of flags tonight."

[kdf5]

We've had the opposite too. We did a quarterfinal a few years ago where the first flag came out early 4th quarter. That was a game where if my career would have ended after that game I would still be smiling as it was well played, back and forth, great night, great fans. Another crew had finished and early game and was listening to our game on the radio. It was such a good game that they came and watched the rest of ours rather than head home.

[Texas Aggie]

48 states disagree with you.

True, but compare the quality of football in those 48 states to Texas and then get back to me.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by Texas Aggie

True, but compare the quality of football in those 48 states to Texas and then get back to me.

Well that's why there is Federation ball so the heathen nonbelievers in the football gods can play too.

Edited to make my post a little less snarky. Sorry, I'm a bit onery today.

[Jim D]

Originally Posted by voiceoflg

A question from a broadcaster. We did a crosstown rivalry game last night that was a rollercoaster with the twists and turns, big plays and turnovers. Good guys take the lead 24-20 on a trick play touchdown with 7:00 left in the game, and intercepted the opponent's pass in the end zone with :30 left.

But there were so many penalties in that game both ways. There were only two or three that neither myself, color commentator nor sideline guy saw. But the other 100 (not sure the exact number but it seemed like it) were seen by at least one of us. We saw virtually every infraction in the book, and only a few of them more than twice!

Have you guys had a game like that where it seems like every other play has a flag thrown? I know you aren't paid by the hour, so games like that must drive you crazy.

This is very unusual in my experience. Big games like cross-town rivals or a match of high-ranked teams normally are easy to work and have very few penalties. I think it's because the players are too busy trying to win and to aware of the consequences of a dumb penalty to do anything stupid. In the case of top teams, they are better players (less need to hold, etc.) and better coached. I'm really suprised you would have a game like this with that many fouls. For me, it seems the norm to have a game like that with maybe two or three flags all night. It's the uneven blow outs that become flag fests.

Do you have any theories why your game was like that?

[voiceoflg]

Originally Posted by Jim D

This is very unusual in my experience. Big games like cross-town rivals or a match of high-ranked teams normally are easy to work and have very few penalties. I think it's because the players are too busy trying to win and to aware of the consequences of a dumb penalty to do anything stupid. In the case of top teams, they are better players (less need to hold, etc.) and better coached. I'm really suprised you would have a game like this with that many fouls. For me, it seems the norm to have a game like that with maybe two or three flags all night. It's the uneven blow outs that become flag fests.

Do you have any theories why your game was like that?

Not really. There were some tiebreak situations, but basically the winner of this game went to the playoffs and the loser did not, so there may have been some extra anticipation at the line and trying get away with bending the rules. Here are the penalties in order from most to least:

False start by OL (seven)
Defensive line offsides (three)
Offensive holding (three)
Illegal block in the back (three)
6 men on LOS (three)
UC (three, the last one with an ejection)
DPI (two)
2 backs in motion (two)
Running into the punter
Kickoff OOB
Chop block
Illegal substitution
Defensive holding
Ineligible man downfield
12 men on the field after the snap
Running into the kicker

After listening to the tape, the only ones none of us in the booth saw was one of the offensive holdings and one DPI. But they very easily could have happened. But every other infraction was definitely an accurate call by the officials.

A wild game with two lead changes in the fourth quarter and the winning team intercepting a pass in the end zone with 30 seconds left. But the players committed way too many fouls.