Substitution Infraction Situations

[reff4e]

Two situations involving substitution infractions (or not)....Federation rules:

Play 1:
Following a possession change during which team A offense has huddled at the sideline, A comes to the ball and attempts to line up with 13 players. Seeing the confusion, the coach immediately asks for a time out (he has 3 left). Is this an illegal substitution infraction? If so, how do you determine which replaced players failed to ‘leave immediately.’ Do you grant the time out, and still assess the substitution penalty, or do you ignore the substitution infraction since the coach called time out before ‘deception’ could occur?

Play 2:
During a time out for measurement, substitute A12 comes to the huddle on the field. Replaced player A11 stays at the huddle to observe the measurement. After the measurement, the referee signals the ball ready-for-play and A11 leaves. Is this an illegal substitution infraction?

[wisref2]

I would say you have nothing in play 1 - the coach gave up a timeout and he beat you to it.

In 2 - would have to see it to call it, but it sounds like a foul.

[Ed Hickland]

I think A has gained an advantage by having 13 players in a formation. The defense has to be thinking how to cover. Therefore, substitution infraction.

NCAA states it in plain language the amount of time a player when substituted can remain on the field. For NFHS you use common sense, if a replaced player stays on the field for any length of time such that the defense begins to adjust, that is a foul. Consider, what if the defense sensing coverage is inadequate while not realizing the extra player(s) calls timeout. The offense will have gained an advantage.

Play 2. No doubt. Twelve players. However, I would try to coax that player off the field without a penalty, just like the coach who comes out to coach during the measurement.

[Bob M.]

REPLY: Technically, both are fouls. There is no requirement that you know precisely who was late leaving. The simple arithmetic tells you that two replaced players (identities unknown) did not leave the field immediately.

[Jim D]

Although Bob M. is correct, if in the first situation, the coach calls time out before I've thrown my flag and blown it dead, I would let him buy his way out of the foul with the time out. If I had already blown it dead, I'd penalize it and then ask the coach if he still wanted the TO.

[Robert Goodman]

Okay, so we're going to come over the ball with 13 players and see what the other team does, then call time out....