Is hand chop required?

[MJT]

In Iowa, we have been specifically instructed by the state office to NOT have the B chop in for any plays.

[dldsooner]

Originally Posted by MJT

In Iowa, we have been specifically instructed by the state office to NOT have the B chop in for any plays.

We call a lot of 8 man in Oklahoma, and they do not have the luxury of a play clock. Our back judge will chop the final 5 seconds so the offense is aware that time is about to expire.

MJT, I do not understand why Iowa will not let you chop for any play, does the offense not have the right to know how much time is left before they get hit with a d-o-g penalty?

Originally Posted by dldsooner

We call a lot of 8 man in Oklahoma, and they do not have the luxury of a play clock. Our back judge will chop the final 5 seconds so the offense is aware that time is about to expire.

MJT, I do not understand why Iowa will not let you chop for any play, does the offense not have the right to know how much time is left before they get hit with a d-o-g penalty?

In Nebraska, we count out the 5-seconds, just like in basketball, with the chopping movement. Back judge is required to do it in 5-man crew, while R and U (or just R) are supposed to do it in 4-man (and don't ask me why!).

In Iowa, NO signal whatsoever. The IHSAA feels that giving any kind of signal puts the offense at an advantage of knowing the 25-seconds is winding down, since the BJ is always behind the defense. It "disadvantages" the defense. I think it's stupid because if the defense knows the clock is winding down, then they can shift and show a different blitz or whatever that would force the QB to reaudible or call timeout or risk the DOG penalty.

[PSU213]

Our BJ does not 'chop' for any plays. He just puts his hand up at the 5 second mark. I would doubt if the QB (obviously at the LOS) could even see his 'chopping' 20 yards deep.

Originally Posted by PSU213

Our BJ does not 'chop' for any plays. He just puts his hand up at the 5 second mark. I would doubt if the QB (obviously at the LOS) could even see his 'chopping' 20 yards deep.

I can see your point, and this was raised at the Nebraska rules meeting when this was brought up the first time. The NSAA said the chop is better than the raised hand, otherwise the QB would think there's a dead ball.

[Ref inSoCA]

Originally Posted by dldsooner

We call a lot of 8 man in Oklahoma, and they do not have the luxury of a play clock. Our back judge will chop the final 5 seconds so the offense is aware that time is about to expire.

MJT, I do not understand why Iowa will not let you chop for any play, does the offense not have the right to know how much time is left before they get hit with a d-o-g penalty?

That's what coaches are for. Why do we have to do their job?

We don't chop either. It's stupid.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Ref inSoCA

That's what coaches are for. Why do we have to do their job?

We don't chop either. It's stupid.

No, that's what on field play clocks are for and they exist in NCAA and NFL football. If we don't have them, we tell everyone how much time's left on the play clock. Not doing so is stupid.

[MJT]

Originally Posted by dldsooner

MJT, I do not understand why Iowa will not let you chop for any play, does the offense not have the right to know how much time is left before they get hit with a d-o-g penalty?

We were told that if there is not a 25 second clock available that the offense would have to keep track of it themselves. If they want to know, they keep it on a watch from the whistle. That is part of coaching we were told.

[JRutledge]

I still chop even though no one has told me either way what to do. This is not really a big deal either way. I do not see a right or wrong for this situation.

Peace

[Bob M.]

REPLY: We were told that we must chop the last 5 seconds. In fact, more and more, coaches are relying on us to serve as their 'surrogate' play clock when they're trying to run out the clock. Their QBs will look right at the BJ and snap when his chop gets to 23 or 24 seconds expired. Very effective.

Originally Posted by MJT

We were told that if there is not a 25 second clock available that the offense would have to keep track of it themselves. If they want to know, they keep it on a watch from the whistle. That is part of coaching we were told.

The offense keeping on a watch from the whistle. Dangerous territory there, because if both teams have a coach standing on the sidelines with a watch and you flag a DOG at 24 seconds (even if you have 25 on your watch), you'll catch so much grief both teams might not have any coaches to finish the game because you'll be kicking them all out on USC's. This was what the NSAA was wanting to avoid by having the chopping on the last 5 seconds. It brings consistency because the BJ is doing it for both teams.

[Bob M.]

REPLY: Ref Ump Welsch...I agree. However, when there's a coach on the sideline--or both sidelines--with a watch, you're going to catch grief even if your BJ does count off the last five seconds. One coach's watch will definitely be running faster than yours; and you can bet that the other coach's watch will be running slower than yours! The best of all possible worlds is that the game clock is running when the RFP is blown and the BJ is facing the scoreboard.

Originally Posted by Bob M.

REPLY: Ref Ump Welsch...I agree. However, when there's a coach on the sideline--or both sidelines--with a watch, you're going to catch grief even if your BJ does count off the last five seconds. One coach's watch will definitely be running faster than yours; and you can bet that the other coach's watch will be running slower than yours! The best of all possible worlds is that the game clock is running when the RFP is blown and the BJ is facing the scoreboard.

My crew solved that problem. We tell the coaches that we have one of those ReadyRef pagers, that will time the 25 seconds and it buzzes at 20, and our BJ will count off. My white hat will "warn" coaches that we will NOT accept any bellyaching from them about the 25-seconds being inconsistent. We've actually flagged one coach for USC because he kept yelling out the time it took from RFP to snap on EVERY play by the opponents. After the flag, he was quiet.

[Mike L]

Like Ref inSoCA said, we don't chop, rarely get any comment about the 25 second clock from coaches, rarely have delay flags. Perhaps in our area, this is a solution looking for a problem that doesn't exist.
And as usual, my advise is to do what your local assoc and/or state wants you to do.

[MJT]

Originally Posted by Ref Ump Welsch

The offense keeping on a watch from the whistle. Dangerous territory there, because if both teams have a coach standing on the sidelines with a watch and you flag a DOG at 24 seconds (even if you have 25 on your watch), you'll catch so much grief both teams might not have any coaches to finish the game because you'll be kicking them all out on USC's. This was what the NSAA was wanting to avoid by having the chopping on the last 5 seconds. It brings consistency because the BJ is doing it for both teams.

If there is not a play clock, and crews are told not to chop, I think it would be wise to not wait until 1 second to snap the ball. We do not chop cuz we are told to not chop. The coaches were at the same rules meeting where we were told that. I have never heard a coach complain about it cuz they know that is how it will be.