Goalline coverage and communication

[BoBo]

OK we had a situation tonight in a freshman game that did not go over very well with the visiting team.

A10 is on a qb sneak.

big pile up and initial surge is stopped he then rolls and reaches the the ball across the goalline.

Our umpire sees the ball cross and holds his arm up with one fist in the air. The back judge also sees the ball cross.

Because of the big pile the wing guys having trouble see the ball.

Finally line judge sees the umpire and blows his whistle and arms up touchdown.

Well while the time it took for the LJ to see the U signal the defense has no grabbed the ball and B47 is running alone at the 12 heading the other way.

I see the TD signal as the WH and blow the whistle.

We conference and give A the TD.

Explain the scenario to the visiting coach. He was not happy but behave very well.

We are told that the umpire should never signal with the conventional TD signal but rather put his fist in the air.

Questions for you guys.

1. Should the U blow his whistle?

2. Should the U just give the TD signal and whistle?

3.Is there a way that you and crew handle this that would help us avoid this problem?

I know we got the call correct just wanted it to go alot more smoothly.

Help

[BktBallRef]

1. I don't have a problem with the whistle if the play is obviously over. But it better be damn obvious.

2. NO. The U is looking for the ball to break the plane. He is not looking for a knee touching the ground, forward progress being stopped, etc, nor should he. He should simply use a pre-approved signal that the ball is in the end zone, not that a TD has been scored.

3. I do not put my fist in the air. I punch to the end line. That way the wingmen can usually see my arm even if they can't see my torso. I like that signal better than the two clenched fists that a lot of crews use.

Also, sounds like your wings need to pinch in and not be afraid to move to get a better angle. Somebody's got to make a call.

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Also, sounds like your wings need to pinch in and not be afraid to move to get a better angle. Somebody's got to make a call.

Speaking of pinching in, what kind of formation were they showing? More and more now, I'm seeing teams spread their offense from one sideline to the other on the goalline in an effort to "take out" some of the defenders.

[MJT]

I agree with BBR on all 3 parts. We also have our U extend one arm straight out so they can see it pretty easily thru their periphial vision. It is a little more visual to them than just grabbing his laynard or putting a fist on the chest. No one sees or knows what the signal is anyway accept for the crew or other officials.

[Rick KY]

I don't think it matters what signal is used, but the umpire should be giving a signal only his crew knows. We are told to use 2 fists against your chest like grabbing your own shirt, while looking down at the ball/runner.

If you are the wing, and you see the U give this signal, AND you have not seen the runner down short of the GL, you should look to your opposite wing and see what he has before signalling. Knowing that U has a ball in the EZ in possession of an A player would indicate a TD unless the wings have seen the runner down prior to crossing the plane of GL. This must be done quickly to prevent the situation you had with B taking the ball the other way.

Some U signals for this type of play are: 2 fists on chest, tug on whistle lanyard, thumb up. Never use a verbal signal such as "he's in, he's in", as this can lead to problems if wings have the runner down short of GL.

[GPC2]

Originally Posted by Ref Ump Welsch

Speaking of pinching in, what kind of formation were they showing? More and more now, I'm seeing teams spread their offense from one sideline to the other on the goalline in an effort to "take out" some of the defenders.

I think this is a great question and one that I would like to hear some opinions on. If the team spreads players out on 4th and Goal from the 1/2 yard line and runs a QB sneak, as a wing official, should we haul *ss and pinch in (and leave players behind us), or be a little more deliberate, being mindful of the players (while not appearing to have good coverage of the goal line).

I guess in short, what is more important, the goal line or the players?

[Jim D]

Originally Posted by GPC2

I think this is a great question and one that I would like to hear some opinions on. If the team spreads players out on 4th and Goal from the 1/2 yard line and runs a QB sneak, as a wing official, should we haul *ss and pinch in (and leave players behind us), or be a little more deliberate, being mindful of the players (while not appearing to have good coverage of the goal line).

I guess in short, what is more important, the goal line or the players?

Stay wide and never let a player be behind you. What if they fake a run and lob a pass to the corner?

Originally Posted by Jim D

Stay wide and never let a player be behind you. What if they fake a run and lob a pass to the corner?

Exactly. That's the dilemma we are slowly facing now, especially since the HS teams are starting to look towards the spread option offense Florida runs. A couple of schools we've worked this year have gone completely to the spread option offense, while a couple others have incorporated some of the spread option looks into their multiple formation option offense. The stuff they are doing out of these formations can make the wing guys go nutty, especially in the red zone.

[JugglingReferee]

The Coalition of Canadian Football Umpires can come down to the US and teach US Umpires how to watch for forward progress and a touchdown.

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

The Coalition of Canadian Football Umpires can come down to the US and teach US Umpires how to watch for forward progress and a touchdown.

Do you have a coalition of wing guys who can give us some solutions to our spread out dilemma I was talking about earlier?

[HossHumard]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

The Coalition of Canadian Football Umpires can come down to the US and teach US Umpires how to watch for forward progress and a touchdown.

Don't even go there JR! I'm still hurting from the last time I suggested that concept!

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

The Coalition of Canadian Football Umpires can come down to the US and teach US Umpires how to watch for forward progress and a touchdown.

JR are you going to join forces with the NCAA TV announcers that complain the U won't make a touchdown call?

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by BoBo

We are told that the umpire should never signal with the conventional TD signal but rather put his fist in the air.

Interesting! That's an old signal for TD.

[Reffing Rev.]

Last year in a district game I was a late notice replacement for a team fairly local, local enough I got their newspaper. I worked LJ with the absolute most obsolete R I've ever seen. Anyway the home team had a 1st and goal inside the 5 with a monster of a fullback who could have gained 5 yards in 3 downs easily. First down, incomplete pass to the corner. Second down sweep to my side down at the 1. Third down FB dive. I see the FB knee down and am pretty sure he is short but I'm not giving a signal on that, so I am rushing in (no one behind me) to find the ball as the U goes up with a full blown sell of a touchdown call and the HL puts up 4th down right were I thought it was. The R had us vote (what an idiot) and we got the call right, much to the dismay of the home team, and we got nailed in the paper with a full color half page picture of the FB laying on the ground with the ball in the end zone and the U signalling touchdown. Home team lost 14-10.

[Bob M.]

REPLY: Nothing wrong with the umpire blowing his whistle if he sees the ball down and there's been no other whistle. However, he should not signal a TD. Our umpires will typically grab their lanyard just below their collars (or their shirt just below the collar) to indicate that they have a ball in a runner's possession in the opponent's endzone. Then it's up to the wings to decide if the runner was down prior to crossing the goal. If not...ring it up.