Mull it over

[parepat]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Citation, please.

Holder, kicker in place, exception applies.

Yep. Got this one wrong ASSUMED that the holder must be in scrimmage kick formation. Not true.

[wisref2]

BoBo -

Eligible receivers are the backs and those on the end of the line (if properly numbered). So, assuming the center is still on the end of the line, he is still eligible.

Eligibility begins at the snap - if eligible when the down begins, a player is eligible during the entire down.

[waltjp]

Originally Posted by wisref2

Eligibility begins at the snap - if eligible when the down begins, a player is eligible during the entire down.

This is not entirely true. If a player with an eligible number assumes an initial position on the line under the numbering exception (7-2-5b exc.) during a scrimmage kick he remains ineligible throughout the play regardless of whether he shifts to an eligible position or not.

[BoBo]

the reason i bring this up is following situation.

Center A44 is the snapper.

Team A is in swinging gate formation.

Lined up to the side as follows.

85 - 75 - 66 - 62 - 75 - 88 - (then center of the field is) 44
up backs are 32 and 25

holder is 10
kicker is 3

Ready for play is blown and A44 puts his hands on the ball.

If they fake it the elgibles are 85, 32, 25, 10, 3, and 44

Now his hands are on the ball and they shift to fg/pat formation.

the line looks like this (85-75-66-44-62-75-88)

can 88 be inelgible and then elgible with the shift??

[Bob M.]

REPLY: BoBo...for your play, after the shift, #88 remains ineligible. The reason is that there are less than five numbered 50-79 on the line at the snap, so the numbering exception is in effect. Since #88 took a position initially as an interior lineman under the numbering exception, he remains ineligible for the down.

[BoBo]

thank you for reassuring my thoughts.

now when does elgibility begin in this situation?

when the center places his hands on the ball?

i am sure we have all had this play and 88 begins as inelgible, then we have a had a bad snap and i am sure he goes out for a pass.

Honestly how many of us miss/let this go?

Explaining the rule to the coach will be lots of fun. And I am sure it will respond "we have always done it this way and it has never been flagged before"

just my two cents worth

[waltjp]

Originally Posted by BoBo

thank you for reassuring my thoughts.

now when does elgibility begin in this situation?

when the center places his hands on the ball?

You determine eligibility when everyone is set. The position of the snapper's hands have no bearing.

i am sure we have all had this play and 88 begins as inelgible, then we have a had a bad snap and i am sure he goes out for a pass.

Honestly how many of us miss/let this go?

It's my job (umpire) to see that we don't miss this. The first time I see this formation I'll make a mental note of anyone who's ineligible by position. As soon as I get a chance I'm writing those numbers on my game card.

Explaining the rule to the coach will be lots of fun. And I am sure it will respond "we have always done it this way and it has never been flagged before"

Give this comment the same credence as you do any other similar comment from a coach. You weren't at last week's game and have no way of confirming if they did get away with this.

[wisref2]

If in a scrimmage kick formation (7 yards or more behind LOS), 88 can't become eligible. This applies only to scrimmage kick formation - he originally lined up as a lineman. The restriction starts after the ready for play. Once they leave the huddle and go somewhere in a scrimmage kick formation, they are stuck with that status.

In my original play (holder was 4 yards behind LOS), 88 can become eligible.