Fair catch question

[Rich]

As you can see from the first two responses, you probably had to be there. How did the defense react? How did the receiving team and the receiver react to the whistle/flag (not that this is relevant, I'm just curious).

[bossman72]

I've seen this exact play happen many many times in college football games and it is always a "no call." They usually do the "incomplete pass sign" and yell "POISON!" on a bad kick to let the team know to get away.

This is not an invalid fair catch signal. I can't back it up with rules b/c i'm not an official (yet), but i've seen this happen many times at the D1 level and it has always been a "no call."

[grantsrc]

In NCAA this should be killed if the signal is given while the ball is airborn, see AR 6-5-3 VI. If the "poison" or "get away" signal is given while the ball is in the air, opon catch or recovery the ball should be killed. Also, it is important to note that there is no foul for an invalid signal in NCAA. I tell each punt returner prior to the game that any waving of the arms while the ball is in the air I am going to kill. If the poison signal is given while the ball is grounded, the play continues.

In NFHS, I think you made the right call by the book. I personally am not a fan of the invalid fair catch foul. Why have this foul in place? I am sure there is a reason, just not sure what it is. The signal here is given to his teammates and not the opponents. Although the play should certainly be killed once he starts to advance w/ the ball here.

[JugglingReferee]

I don't do US ball, but from the perspective of a football fan, if I'm K and closing in on the punt receiver, I hope I don't have to worry about what kind of signal R gives that determines if I can proceed to tackle R.

I think blowing it dead with any obvious signal is a good way to go.

[sj]

Originally Posted by bossman72

I've seen this exact play happen many many times in college football games and it is always a "no call." They usually do the "incomplete pass sign" and yell "POISON!" on a bad kick to let the team know to get away.

This is not an invalid fair catch signal. I can't back it up with rules b/c i'm not an official (yet), but i've seen this happen many times at the D1 level and it has always been a "no call."

Do you mean to say that:

a) you have seen R1 give a get away signal like this, without recovering the ball, many times at the D1 level and it's always been a no-call?

b) you have seen R1 give a get away signal like this, and then recover the ball, many times at the D1 level and it's always been a no-call?

[grantsrc]

Originally Posted by sj

Do you mean to say that:

a) you have seen R1 give a get away signal like this, without recovering the ball, many times at the D1 level and it's always been a no-call?

b) you have seen R1 give a get away signal like this, and then recover the ball, many times at the D1 level and it's always been a no-call?

It depends on when the signal is given. If the signal is given while the ball is airborn, then the play is blown dead when the ball is caught or recovered. No foul.

If the signal is given after the ball has hit the ground, play continues on, no foul.

This isn't a foul in NCAA, the ball is simply dead. 6-5-3

[bossman72]

Originally Posted by sj

Do you mean to say that:

a) you have seen R1 give a get away signal like this, without recovering the ball, many times at the D1 level and it's always been a no-call?

b) you have seen R1 give a get away signal like this, and then recover the ball, many times at the D1 level and it's always been a no-call?

Both: yes.

grant brings up an interesting point though. i can't seem to recall if the ball was in the air or bouncing when the poison call was given. but yes, i've never ever seen a penalty called for this infraction at the D1 level.

[grantsrc]

Originally Posted by bossman72

but yes, i've never ever seen a penalty called for this infraction at the D1 level.

Because it is not a foul. It is simply a violation for lack of a better term.

[bossman72]

Originally Posted by grantsrc

Because it is not a foul. It is simply a violation for lack of a better term.

Now that i think about it more, i don't think i've ever seen the poison signal given, then have the ball caught in the air. The ball has always been bouncing come to think of it. So, that's why there's no "violation".

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by bossman72

Now that i think about it more, i don't think i've ever seen the poison signal given, then have the ball caught in the air. The ball has always been bouncing come to think of it. So, that's why there's no "violation".

What Grant is saying is that an invalid fair catch signal is not a penalty in NCAA like it is in High School.