Where is the TEE???

[JimNayzium]

NF: i have read about the where's the tee in the casebook on this forum only. I realize my knowledge of the casebook should be better, however, as a coach, with only a NF rulebook handy, what rule specifically makes any action by the offense to create a situation that the snap is not imminent illegal. I am not questioning everyone's expertise on this subject, i have just always read the rule book only , not the casebook. Where in the NF rulebook can I deduce that a play like this would be illegal. Again i am not questioning i just want to know?

The specific play I am referring to would be a quarterback trying to draw a team offsides and then acting like he is walking to his bench to call timeout. when the defense jumps and celebrates the fact they have not jumped offsides the offense hikes the ball to the fullback.

i realize now i have a "Where's the Tee" type situation, but where in the NF rulebook makes this illegal? thanks.

[mikesears]

Originally posted by JimNayzium
NF: i have read about the where's the tee in the casebook on this forum only. I realize my knowledge of the casebook should be better, however, as a coach, with only a NF rulebook handy, what rule specifically makes any action by the offense to create a situation that the snap is not imminent illegal. I am not questioning everyone's expertise on this subject, i have just always read the rule book only , not the casebook. Where in the NF rulebook can I deduce that a play like this would be illegal. Again i am not questioning i just want to know?

The specific play I am referring to would be a quarterback trying to draw a team offsides and then acting like he is walking to his bench to call timeout. when the defense jumps and celebrates the fact they have not jumped offsides the offense hikes the ball to the fullback.

i realize now i have a "Where's the Tee" type situation, but where in the NF rulebook makes this illegal? thanks.

The only place I have ever gotten the information about the "Where's the Tee" play is in the casebook. I might suggest spending the extra money to get the casebook every year.

My guess is that the "Where's the tee?" play violates one of the provisions of Unsportsmanlike Conduct. I'm without my rulebook today, so I can't provide any reference for it.

[Middleman]

Originally posted by JimNayzium
NF: i have read about the where's the tee in the casebook on this forum only. I realize my knowledge of the casebook should be better, however, as a coach, with only a NF rulebook handy, what rule specifically makes any action by the offense to create a situation that the snap is not imminent illegal. I am not questioning everyone's expertise on this subject, i have just always read the rule book only , not the casebook. Where in the NF rulebook can I deduce that a play like this would be illegal. Again i am not questioning i just want to know?

The specific play I am referring to would be a quarterback trying to draw a team offsides and then acting like he is walking to his bench to call timeout. when the defense jumps and celebrates the fact they have not jumped offsides the offense hikes the ball to the fullback.

i realize now i have a "Where's the Tee" type situation, but where in the NF rulebook makes this illegal? thanks.

Unfortunately, Coach, you won't find a rule that specifically makes these actions illegal. In fact, you won't even find a rule that clearly alludes to the ruling. The applicable rule is 9-5-1, "No player shall act in an unsportsmanlike manner ..." Although the act in question is not listed in the examples a-h, that list is not intended to be all-inclusive. Within the Case Book, you will find the interpretation of the Federation Rules Committee that such acts are unsportsmanlike.

So, for your benefit, I quote:
"9.5.1 SITUATION D: From a field goal formation, potential kicker yells, "Where's the tee", A2 replies, "I'll go get it" and goes legally in motion toward his team's side-line. Ball is snapped to A1 who throws a touchdown pass to A2. Ruling: Unsportsmanlike conduct prior to the snap.
"Comment: Football has been and always will be a game of deception and trickery involving multiple shifts, unusual formations and creative plays. However, actions or verbiage designed to confuse the defense into believing there is problem [sic] and a snap isn't imminent is beyond the scope of sportsmanship and is illegal."

Oh, and one other thing, Coach, let me quote from the Coaches Code of Ethics: "The coach shall master the contest rules and shall teach them to his or her team members. The coach shall not seek an advantage by circumvention of the spirit or letter of the rules."

"...spirit or letter of the rules," Coach. There's your guidance. And you can find that in the rulebook.

[JimNayzium]

I am clearly not trying to circumvent the rules. That would be like trying to hold when holding is illegal. What I thought I was doing was putting my quarterback into motion legally. Based on the NF rulebook what other things that are not included in this non-inclusive list are also unsportsmanlike?

How are we suppossed to know if it is not listed?
It is a game based on deception, therefore, within the confines of the rules it is ok to lie to your opponent. Why are some lies different from others. We fake handoffs all the time. Why is deception after the ball has been marked ready, different than deception after the snap?

My league booking agent did not and will not reference the casebook, and has never flagged me on this type play. How do I go about conferencing with officials that do not even use the casebook?

Is the casebook designed to be all inclusive?

Could a referee witness an entirely new play that he deems unsportsmanlike just "because." It seems this puts the judgement entirely into the refs hands. Why do we even have the NF rulebook if we have to have the casebook also. No doubt I am in the process of getting the casebook, but I know I will be the only coach that uses it regularly.

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by JimNayzium

Could a referee witness an entirely new play that he deems unsportsmanlike just "because?"

Yes, he can. That's we study the Rule Book and Case Book so hard. Many coaches who are unable to line up and play smash mouth football are constantly looking for ways to deceive their opponent. They will push the envelope until a play is ruled illegal.

It seems this puts the judgement entirely into the refs hands. Why do we even have the NF rulebook if we have to have the casebook also. No doubt I am in the process of getting the casebook, but I know I will be the only coach that uses it regularly.

You're probably also the only coach that uses the rule book regularly.

We have the Case Book because everyting can't be covered in the Rule Book. If the NF attempted to cover every possible situation in the Rule Book, it would be the size of a dictionary. Anyone studying the rules must also study the Case Book to effectively understand and interpret them.

Allow me to make a comparison. Ever read a passage in the Bible and wonder what it meant? That's when you go to a Commentary for an interpretation. The Rule Book and Case Book are no different.

[JimNayzium]

good analogy, the only problem is in that same analogy, my referees are trying to tell me, a Calvinistic Presbyterian, about Predestination, using the apocrypha as their basis.

I know my refereees have never used the casebook at all. They let me run my fake timeout play when the qb walks off as if to call timeout and then we snap the ball to the fb....we ran it in the state championship in our division...anyway,

thanks for the time.

[BktBallRef]

If everything that you've told me about the guys who work your games is true, then I believe you.

Just like there are great coaches and poor coaches, there are great officials and poor ones as well.

[Rick KY]

Coach Jim,
There is a difference between the legal and illegal deception. The case book concedes that football is a game of deception. However, that deception should be limited to what can occur during a given play/down, and not between plays/downs. The infamous Where's the Tee play was a specific example used in the case book to highlight the fact that deception can be illegal when it fails to pass the sportmanlike test. In that play, before the play even starts, the offense uses words and actions not related to the play to deceive the defense into thinking a play will not even take place. This is to be differentiated from a fake field goal for example, or the play action fake you referred to. Those plays use legally deceptive acts to lure the defense into thinking something will happen during a play that actually will not.

In simple terms this is the difference between what kind of action will take place, versus whether any will or not.

[Ed Hickland]

Originally posted by JimNayzium
good analogy, the only problem is in that same analogy, my referees are trying to tell me, a Calvinistic Presbyterian, about Predestination, using the apocrypha as their basis.

I know my refereees have never used the casebook at all. They let me run my fake timeout play when the qb walks off as if to call timeout and then we snap the ball to the fb....we ran it in the state championship in our division...anyway,

thanks for the time.

Coach, I have to applaud you for seeking an interpretation of the rules. Football rules are complicated and often require interpretations. Unfortunately, coaches and even some officials do not seek the wisdom of the case book. And I have to admit until someone pointed it out to me on this forum the "where's the tee" play was a funny little play. I would bet of the 24 referees in my association the only one who would enforce an unsportsmanlike penalty would be me.

[Theisey]

Originally posted by JimNayzium

i realize now i have a "Where's the Tee" type situation, but where in the NF rulebook makes this illegal? thanks.

Coach Jim,
the case book comment that goes along with the "where's the tee" type of play says this "... However, actions or verbiage designed to confuse the defense into believing there is a problem or the snap isn't imminent is beyound the scope of sportsmanship and is illegal".

This is exactly what you are doing with your fake the timeout play and it should not be allowed.

Now, maybe if one of your backs continues to call the snap cadence, one might be convinced this is a QB in motion play. My guess is that is not what you are doing and it is wrong, dead wrong.