The Official Forum

The Official Forum (https://forum.officiating.com/)
-   Football (https://forum.officiating.com/football/)
-   -   Confused about 1-point safeties... (https://forum.officiating.com/football/30229-confused-about-1-point-safeties.html)

Mike22Official Fri Dec 15, 2006 04:14pm

Confused about 1-point safeties...
 
Team A try. Let's just say for some stupid reason, Quarterback A6 runs all the way back to A's goalline, where he falls down.

Is this a 1-point or 2-point safety awarded to Team B?

Bob M. Fri Dec 15, 2006 04:27pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike22Official
Team A try. Let's just say for some stupid reason, Quarterback A6 runs all the way back to A's goalline, where he falls down.

Is this a 1-point or 2-point safety awarded to Team B?

REPLY: For Federation, it is neither. B cannot ever, ever score under current Fed rules. All it amounts to is the end of the try.

NCAA rules are different though.

Mike22Official Fri Dec 15, 2006 05:03pm

Yeah I read after posting that the ball becomes dead on tries once B gains possession. I never knew that about high school ball.

But what's the call for NCAA and NFL?

Theisey Fri Dec 15, 2006 05:04pm

However, Team-A can score a 1-point safety during a TRY down. Do you see how?

Mike22Official Fri Dec 15, 2006 05:25pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Theisey
However, Team-A can score a 1-point safety during a TRY down. Do you see how?

No, I don't see how, if under Fed rules it says in 8-3-2a that the try becomes dead once Team B has secured possession. I thought this was what's prohibiting B from scoring 2 points like in the NCAA. I also thought this means that 1 point safety would be impossible since the play is dead once B has gained possession. How could a 1-point safety occur?

ljudge Fri Dec 15, 2006 05:42pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike22Official
No, I don't see how, if under Fed rules it says in 8-3-2a that the try becomes dead once Team B has secured possession. I thought this was what's prohibiting B from scoring 2 points like in the NCAA. I also thought this means that 1 point safety would be impossible since the play is dead once B has gained possession. How could a 1-point safety occur?

Fully read the definition of "force" and then see if you can answer Theisey's question.

Mike22Official Fri Dec 15, 2006 08:44pm

I read the definition of force and still do not understand.

Force isn't even mentioned in 8-3-2a, just possession.

Mike22Official Fri Dec 15, 2006 08:59pm

OK OK, I got it. For some reason I was thinking that Team B had secured possession with an interception.

If A, on a try, were to fumble at B's 3 yard line, and B66, while attempting to recover the fumble, FORCED it into the endzone where it was recovered by Team B or knocked OOB in the endzone, a 1-point safety would be awarded to Team A.

Got ya. Under that scenario, I know it's a 1-point safety awarded to Team A. I don't know why I was thinking B had secured possession with an interception.

Now if A had recovered the fumble in B's endzone, it'd be 2-points for Team A, correct?

Can someone answer my question about, in the NCAA, what would happen if A was tackled in their own endzone on a try?

Kirby Fri Dec 15, 2006 09:44pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike22Official
OK OK, I got it. For some reason I was thinking that Team B had secured possession with an interception.

If A, on a try, were to fumble at B's 3 yard line, and B66, while attempting to recover the fumble, FORCED it into the endzone where it was recovered by Team B or knocked OOB in the endzone, a 1-point safety would be awarded to Team A.

You are correct, but I'm going to be picky here since you are a new official :)

The word "force" as it pertains to NFHS rules is not a verb, it is a noun. The ball is never "forced." Paraphrasing the definition, force may result from the ball being batted, muffed, kicked, or passed. Now, one thing to keep in mind in your situation. A new force MAY result when a grounded ball is batted, muffed, or kicked. In your situation, we have to be 100% positive that B's force casued the ball to go from the field of play into the endzone (i.e. across the goal-line). If A fumbles the ball and it is rolling toward the end zone at a decent pace, and then B muffs the ball in the same direction, we are probably not going to rule that B's force caused the ball to cross the goal line. Then, depending on who recovers, we will rule accordingly. On the other hand, if the ball is nearly coming to a rest at the 3 yard line, and B muffs the ball, we can without doubt rule that B's force caused the ball to go from the field of play into the end zone. Then we will rule accordingly after one team gains possession. Make sense?

We are not done with you on this play yet, though :D

We have 6 potential situations to rule on here, so provide your ruling for the following:

We have ruled A's force put the ball in the end zone and
(1) a member of team A recovers the ball
(2) a member of team B recovers the ball
(3) the ball rolls out of bounds through the back of the end zone

We have ruled B's force put the ball in the end zone and
(4) a member of team A recovers the ball
(5) a member of team B recovers the ball
(6) the ball rolls out of bounds through the back of the end zone

Mike22Official Fri Dec 15, 2006 10:04pm

I understand that force is a noun in the book's definition. I suppose I should have worded it, "Team B's FORCE put the ball into the end zone."

Anyway, thanks for helping me out. I'm learning a lot.

Here's my attempt to answer your cases:
1. Team A is awarded two points, although I wonder if this is treated as if Team A had fumbled on fourth down and cannot advance the ball on a recovered fumble. If that's the case, the ball would be spotted from where Team A forced the ball into the endzone, and the try would be no good.
2. Team A's try is no good.
3. Same as if #2 occurred, Team A's try is no good.

4. 2-point touchdown awarded to Team A.
5. 1-point safety awarded to Team A.
6. 1-point safety awarded to Team A.

Theisey Fri Dec 15, 2006 10:18pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike22Official
...Now if A had recovered the fumble in B's end-zone, it'd be 2-points for Team A, correct?

correct
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike22Official
Can someone answer my question about, in the NCAA, what would happen if A was tackled in their own end-zone on a try?

If you are a new official working under NFHS rules, I'd not worry about what the NCAA of NFL would do fro a number of years.
However, since you asked.. NCAA rules, permit team-B to score during a TRY down either by running the ball into A's end zone or in your example, tackling a team-A player in his own end zone which of course would be extremely rare.

Mike22Official Fri Dec 15, 2006 10:25pm

I was discussing it with a friend, that's the only reason I was wondering about the NCAA ruling as well.

Was I right on those 6 scenarios above?

Kirby Sat Dec 16, 2006 03:53pm

You nailed them. Nice job! There is no fourth down fumble rule in NFHS rules.

Mike22Official Sun Dec 17, 2006 01:07am

So if A has the ball, 4th and 5 on the 50, and fumbles at the 50, the ball rolls forward and out of bounds at Team B's 43 yard line, we have a first down for Team A at B's 43? Interesting. I'm surprised this isn't treated like the NCAA treats it.

And I'm assuming that A's force is what carries the ball past the line to gain.

Smiley Sun Dec 17, 2006 09:24am

FORCE only applies to balls going into B's endzone.


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:51pm.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1