Illegal pass over the line of scrimmage

zebraman55 · #1 (**permalink**) Sun Oct 07, 2001, 12:28am

QB for A is scrambling out of the pocket (A runs a very effective run and shoot offense). In his effort to avoid being sacked, he ventures very close to the LOS. When he releases the ball, he has definitely entered the nuetral zone. Umpire tosses his flag for Illegal pass. I am awaiting the film to review. From my perspective about 7 yds downfield, it was very close.

Do you provide lee way in these situations? When I referee, I tend to provide some lattitude to the QB, within reason. How do you handle?

zeb

sportswriter · #2 (**permalink**) Sun Oct 07, 2001, 01:35am

Quote:

Originally posted by zebraman55
When (Quarterback) releases the ball, he has definitely entered the nuetral zone.....
Do you provide lee way in these situations? When I referee, I tend to provide some lattitude to the QB, within reason. How do you handle?

How much "leeway" do you give for an offside? Are players allowed to be what - 3" offside? 6"? Two feet?

Leeway is leeway, and on things like that, it's always a judgement concept. However, your phrase is key "when the (qb) releases the beall, he has definitely entered the neutral zone."

No leeway. Definite is definite. Your Ump was 100% positive... he threw the flag.

Zeke5 · #3 (**permalink**) Sun Oct 07, 2001, 07:38am

On a pass play, I'll give the linemen a 2 to 2 1/2 yard leeway downdfield (expanded NZ), but the QB I'll rule tighter. I don't have my rule book, but I'm sure the rule says that the passer has to have both feet in or behind the NZ when he releases the ball. So you may not have an IFP in your case. I'd probably let him slide if he had one foot barely beyond the NZ.

Theisey · #4 (**permalink**) Sun Oct 07, 2001, 12:45pm

The passer cannot throw a pass from beyond the NZ. The down box is the reference point. If the passers foot/feet are beyond, then the pass is illegal.
It's a tough call to make on a pass thrown from the line judge side of the field especially in a four man game. The flag is usually a late flag in that case.

How much leeway? should be none. The problem to deal with is are the feet beyond the box or not. Whether you toss a flag or drop a bag for a possible flag later, one thing for sure is that flag/bag has to be at the spot of the passers feet or you will make the incorrect call.

bluezebra · #5 (**permalink**) Mon Oct 08, 2001, 01:43am

"When he releases the ball, he has definitely entered the nuetral zone. Umpire tosses his flag for Illegal pass."

If the passer is still IN the neutral zone (as your post implies), ther's no foul. Also, why is the umpire making the call? He's supposed to be watching line action, and shouldn't be that close. As a former ump, he'd have to be past me for me to throw the flag.

Bob

Huskerblue · #6 (**permalink**) Mon Oct 08, 2001, 09:23am

The umpire on a pass play is supposed to move up to the LOS to observe things of this nature, (i.e. lineman downfield, holding in the backfield, QB crossing the LOS, etc..)

zebraman55 · #7 (**permalink**) Mon Oct 08, 2001, 10:25pm

THe posts for this thread regard the los as sacred (as it should be), but might the QB have some latitude for closeness to the los? In other words, at what point do you rule he has crossed the NX - when he is clearly over with both feet, over with one foot, over with one toe?

Also, having been an umpire for several years, I have always gone with the theory that this flag belongs to the R, and my role, if I happen to detect this, is to bag the spot of the foremost foot (as close as possible - on the yard line through it), and allow the referee to move forward and determine the legality of the action.

As noted, the Umpire does move up to the los, but in order to ascertain the legality of the QB's action, the umpire had better be at the los, with the appropriate angle. AN umpire might detect this action if the QB rolls and the flow of blockers/defender pursuit moves the same way. NOt so sure this is the Ump's call.

zeb

Tom Cook · #8 (**permalink**) Thu Oct 11, 2001, 04:50pm

Actually, Pat, I think that bagging the front foot of the quarterback is a great idea when it's on the LJ side of the field. Our Assoc. teaches that this is the umpire's flag but you could still bag it until you can take time to get a better look at it. I may try this one sometime.

cw3Retired · #9 (**permalink**) Sun Nov 11, 2001, 11:17pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Tom Cook
Actually, Pat, I think that bagging the front foot of the quarterback is a great idea when it's on the LJ side of the field. Our Assoc. teaches that this is the umpire's flag but you could still bag it until you can take time to get a better look at it. I may try this one sometime.

Same in my state. I don't use the beanbag, but maintain focus until I can get a good angle on the box. The principle of seeing the entire play applies here. If you don't see it all, you don't have a call.

BTW, is there some taboo in revealing what states we work for. It seems everyone avoids mentioning where they are from.

BktBallRef · #10 (**permalink**) Sun Nov 11, 2001, 11:19pm

Quote:

Originally posted by cw3Retired
BTW, is there some taboo in revealing what states we work for. It seems everyone avoids mentioning where they are from.

No, the fact is most of us have posted some many times, we pretty much know where each other are from.

BTW, North Carolina.

http://www.saoa.faync.com