Opinion on Point Not Covered

[mcrowder]

Interested in your opinions here. The rule in question is a local rule, and the situation described becomes not covered by the rules, so I'm curious (possibly as a matter of vote) how you would handle.

NCAA rules, the only relevant exceptions being that the clock runs at this particular level AT ALL TIMES other than timeouts and between quarters, and tackling is illegal (15 yard penalty).

Situation: 25 seconds left, clock is stopped after a time out. Offense is out of time outs. Runner runs about 10 yards and is tackled with 8 seconds to go. A) Time runs out while the penalty is being marked off, and B) Time runs out immediately after the penalty is marked off, and after the RFP.

Note that in NCAA we don't have the FED rule that would FORCE another play here.

Opinions - would you have an untimed down in either situation?

[FootballRef05]

With the timing rules you described I would have to say no untimed down. If they were worried about that situation they would have a rule in place that stioppes the clock during penalty enforcement, so I vote no additional play.

[bluezebra]

stioppes the clock

1..How do you "stioppe" the clock?

2..Local rules are made by fools. They rarely, if ever, think of contingencies.

Bob

[RoyGardner]

For both cases you need to have an "exception" that would take into account the fact that a team could intentionally commit a foul as time was running out to effectively prevent another play. It appears that is what happened here.

Intentional or not, you should not be allowing a penalty committed by the opponent of the trailing team to prevent them from having the time to get off another play.

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by bluezebra

2..Local rules are made by fools. They rarely, if ever, think of contingencies.

I agree 100%, and normally only come across problems like this in softball. But my favorites in this particular league are prohibitions against certain actions without defining those actions or those players ("Linebackers can't blitz." sounds easy --- but without defining both terms specifically, it's caused us a number of problems)

Originally Posted by RoyGardner

For both cases you need to have an "exception" that would take into account the fact that a team could intentionally commit a foul as time was running out to effectively prevent another play. It appears that is what happened here.

Intentional or not, you should not be allowing a penalty committed by the opponent of the trailing team to prevent them from having the time to get off another play.

I agree with this as well. 1 - the rule needs to be more completely written, and 2 - I agree with the 2nd paragraph.

Seems to be 1 vote for running another play, 1 vote against.

[Texas Aggie]

The penalty didn't prevent them from getting off another play. Under these rules, running clock means just that: running clock. If they wanted another play in (A), they could have declined the penalty. In (B), the team is at the mercy of the clock, just like they are at the mercy of the size of the field. While I agree the rules may be flawed, if this is what they are, the game is over.

The rule change simply needs to be "the last 2 minutes of the 4th quarter shall be timed as under NCAA rules," possibly adding "only if the score is within 10 or 16 points."

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by Texas Aggie

The penalty didn't prevent them from getting off another play. Under these rules, running clock means just that: running clock. If they wanted another play in (A), they could have declined the penalty.

Just curious - how would declining the penalty have afforded them another play? It would easily have run out while R was determining whether offense wanted to take the penalty or not, and the subsequent signalling and spotting of the ball.

[Suudy]

Originally Posted by mcrowder

I agree 100%, and normally only come across problems like this in softball. But my favorites in this particular league are prohibitions against certain actions without defining those actions or those players ("Linebackers can't blitz." sounds easy --- but without defining both terms specifically, it's caused us a number of problems)

We deal with this in 7th and 8th grade ball a lot. "No blitzing" means something different to different coaches.

There's also a 150lb limit on running with the ball (if someone 150lb or heavier possesses the ball, we are to blow it dead). Typically this is done by putting a stripe on helmets of the heavy kids. And too often we deal with coaches complaining that a player is too heavy and isn't marked. How are we to know? Sure coach, I'll just pull out my handy portable scale and weigh the kid.

Local rules stink, and make our lives a headache.