Need some help with a weird roughing the passer call.

[booker227]

you would only tack on the fifteen at the end of the run if there was no change of position. With the change of possession, you tack on the fifteen from the previous spot and an automatic first down

[DJ_NV]

That's correct. It's always an automatic first down, but you tack 15 (or 1/2 the distance) on to the the of the last run if the last run ends beyond the NZ and there was no COP during the down.

So first, let's look that the COP. If there is a COP during the down, regardless of whether A has the ball at the end of the down, if the penalty is accepted, it will always be enforced from the Previous Spot. Now if there has been a COP during the down and A has the ball at the end of the down then you have some penalty options to discuss with A. It's going to be a new series for them whether they accept or decline, so you need to make sure you know which one will give them more yards by accepting or declining.

As for the EOLR enforcement, if team A fumbles and recovers (no COP), it doesn't matter how many times they fumble or if any or all are behind the NZ or if one of the runs goes behind the NZ at some point. All that matters when there is no COP is that if the last run ends beyond the NZ, then that's the enforcement spot.

Now the question that some ask is, does a recovery with no actual 'run' constitute a run?

Example: 2/10 from the A-30. Pass is complete to A81 at the A-36 who runs to the A-45 and fumbles. A85 recovers the ball at the A-40 while on his knees. Do you enforce from the A-45 or the A-40?

[The Roamin' Umpire]

Originally Posted by DJ_NV

Now the question that some ask is, does a recovery with no actual 'run' constitute a run?

Example: 2/10 from the A-30. Pass is complete to A81 at the A-36 who runs to the A-45 and fumbles. A85 recovers the ball at the A-40 while on his knees. Do you enforce from the A-45 or the A-40?

(And there was roughing the passer.)

Under NFHS rules, no. Enforce from A-45. Rulebook justification is tough, since it doesn't define "run", just "end of the run" and "runner". But casebook 9.4.4D addresses this very play.

I believe, under NCAA rules, yes, the recovery creates a final, zero-length run. Therefore, enforce from the A-40.