Roughing the passer

[DrMooreReferee]

2nd and 10 from A's 35.QB A10 tosses a shovel pass to A22 at A's 32 who then spins and throws a backward pass back to A10. A10, while standing at the A 28 yardline, then throws a pass downfield which falls incomplete. After the second pass, B77 roughs A10 by running into him clearly after the ball was away.

My question is this. Can the thrower of a 2nd forward pass be roughed? I believe he can. I think we talked about this last year, but I wanted to make sure. I think that because he's behind the line he can be roughed. I think that ALL other illegal passes would not have that same outcome. Only yje 2nd forward pass thrown from behind the line has this roughing possibility.

Agree?

Oh, and I'm thinking NFHS here. But feel free to chime in with other code if you like.

[cowbyfan1]

I would have to say no it is not roughing under the new rule since it is an illegal forward pass on the second pass. Past case book rulings back this up.

[DrMooreReferee]

Could someone direct me to a casebook play that addresses this play? I looked in this year's casebook and couldn't find it. It might have been in last year's, although I don't remember it. And before last year, NFHS rules would allow a 2nd forward pass, so anything before last year would be wrong anyway. I honestly cannot remember a casebook play that clearly defines this. I think, according to the rules, that a passer throwing a 2nd (illegal) forward pass behind the line can be roughed. And now that I think of it, I suppose even if he is intentionally throwing away an illegal 1st pass, he can be roughed.

Just need some direction here.

[ljudge]

There's no mention in the rule book that a passer is someone who throws a legal forward pass like it does with a kicker (which is someone who LEGALLY kicks the ball). But frankly, it doesn't really matter because you CAN have illegal personal contact and it's a double foul any way because the QB threw an IFP.

[DrMooreReferee]

Actually, it kinda does matter. Because there could be contact that you might normally allow (a nice legal block, from the front, and not above the shoulders) that you would NOT allow against a passer. The things that I find confusing here is this. Lets say a QB throws an IFP from behind the neutral zone. Theres no roughing, nobody hits him. Lets also say that B declines the penalty. We're still going to spot the ball where he threw that pass. Why? Because we consider him to be a runner, and thats the end of his run. However, by definition he IS a passer.

So, thats where the confusion really lies. And there's no casebook play to clarify this.

[Jim D]

Rule 9-4-4 prohibits charging into the passer and 2-30-11 defines a passer as a player who throws a forward pass (and it does not restrict the definition to a legal forward pass like the definition of a kicker does). Therefore you can have roughing of a player who throws a second forward pass during the play. You have a double foul (illegal pass on A and roughing on B) so you will replay the down.

[BlindMouse]

Rule 9.4.4 states that roughing the passer foul is against a player who throws the ball from in or behind the NZ, so to me this means that the passer can be roughed if he is in or behind the NZ whether it's a legal or illegal forward pass.

[Texas Aggie]

NCAA: no roughing the passer on a thrower of an illegal pass, as passer is defined as someone throwing a legal (and forward) pass.