OPI on 4th Down

WhistlesAndStripes · #1 (**permalink**) Sat Sep 23, 2006, 09:40pm

4th Down and 10. A has the ball on the B 40 Yard Line. A10 throws a pass to A88 at the B 10 YL. A88 Commits OPI at he 10 yard line, and the pass falls incomplete.

What are the options to give to B?

Please give rule references.

wisref2 · #2 (**permalink**) Sat Sep 23, 2006, 09:52pm

Decline the penalty and take the result of the play - which means a turnover on downs at the 40, first and ten for B.

The obvious choice is to take the penalty - 15 yards from the previous spot and the loss of down penalty. First and ten for B at A's 45.

Rule 5.2.5g

WhistlesAndStripes · #3 (**permalink**) Sat Sep 23, 2006, 10:03pm

OK, we actually had this happen in a JV game today. One of the officials didn't think that B should be given the option of the yardage, and the line he kept saying was, "A penalty should not result in a change of possession." I kept saying it wasn't the penalty that caused the COP, it was the fact that A didn't make the first down yardage, they committed a Loss of DOwn penalty, and therefore, the next down after the play was 1st down for B, but that B was still entitled to the 15 yard penalty being enforced before the ball is turned over on downs.

waltjp · #4 (**permalink**) Sat Sep 23, 2006, 10:44pm

Captain - you can let them have the ball and a first down here or we can go way back there, penalize them 15 yards AND let you have the ball. Your choice.

BktBallRef · #5 (**permalink**) Sat Sep 23, 2006, 10:44pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whistles & Stripes

OK, we actually had this happen in a JV game today. One of the officials didn't think that B should be given the option of the yardage, and the line he kept saying was, "A penalty should not result in a change of possession."

A common mistake by those who don't understand the rules and who don't frequent discussion boards.

ref49873 · #6 (**permalink**) Sat Sep 23, 2006, 11:16pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

A common mistake by those who don't understand the rules and who don't frequent discussion boards.

Amen to that. Not enough people reveiw the rules during the season to know how to apply in unusual situations. This forum is another chance to discuss how to work through the wierd plays we all seem to see.

WhistlesAndStripes · #7 (**permalink**) Sat Sep 23, 2006, 11:49pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by waltjp

Captain - you can let them have the ball and a first down here or we can go way back there, penalize them 15 yards AND let you have the ball. Your choice.

OK, now I'm confused. What would give "them" (them being A, who committed the penalty) the ball and a first down?

WhistlesAndStripes · #8 (**permalink**) Sat Sep 23, 2006, 11:59pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

A common mistake by those who don't understand the rules and who don't frequent discussion boards.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ref49873

Amen to that. Not enough people reveiw the rules during the season to know how to apply in unusual situations. This forum is another chance to discuss how to work through the wierd plays we all seem to see.

I find both of the above comments to be completely out of line. YOu don't even know the official I'm refering to in this situation. And he is NOT one to read his book once a year and then put it away during the season. He studies as much as anyone during the season. This was just one of those "weird plays," and we all occasionally jack these things up a little bit.

Rich · #9 (**permalink**) Sun Sep 24, 2006, 12:06am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whistles & Stripes

I find both of the above comments to be completely out of line. YOu don't even know the official I'm refering to in this situation. And he is NOT one to read his book once a year and then put it away during the season. He studies as much as anyone during the season. This was just one of those "weird plays," and we all occasionally jack these things up a little bit.

I think the comments are appropriate. What about "loss of down" does the official you mention not understand?

JRutledge · #10 (**permalink**) Sun Sep 24, 2006, 12:21am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whistles & Stripes

I find both of the above comments to be completely out of line. YOu don't even know the official I'm refering to in this situation. And he is NOT one to read his book once a year and then put it away during the season. He studies as much as anyone during the season. This was just one of those "weird plays," and we all occasionally jack these things up a little bit.

Relax man. You need to understand that there are people that feel that everything that takes place on the internet has bigger merit.

Most officials never read anything about officiating off the internet and they seemed to be doing just fine. Consider the source and move on.

Peace

waltjp · #11 (**permalink**) Sun Sep 24, 2006, 07:07am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whistles & Stripes

OK, now I'm confused. What would give "them" (them being A, who committed the penalty) the ball and a first down?

W&S - my bad. I missed that the pass was incomplete.

Theisey · #12 (**permalink**) Sun Sep 24, 2006, 07:39am

What is so werid about a standard penalty enforcement that includes the LOD as part of the enforcement? Nothing.
Every official on the field should know what fouls include LOD. There are only five of them.

Don't even offer team-B the option of declining the penalty in this case as it was 4th down and the pass was incomplete. It's not the obvious option to give.

MJT · #13 (**permalink**) Sun Sep 24, 2006, 10:05am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Theisey

Don't even offer team-B the option of declining the penalty in this case as it was 4th down and the pass was incomplete. It's not the obvious option to give.

I agree with you on that point. Make sure you do not let B decline the penalty. If they want to, they don't understand the rule and you need to explain it until they do (well not forever, but in a time or 2 they will get it.)

BktBallRef · #14 (**permalink**) Sun Sep 24, 2006, 12:36pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whistles & Stripes

I find both of the above comments to be completely out of line. YOu don't even know the official I'm refering to in this situation. And he is NOT one to read his book once a year and then put it away during the season. He studies as much as anyone during the season. This was just one of those "weird plays," and we all occasionally jack these things up a little bit.

I have no earthly idea why my statement offends you. I simply stated that it's a common mistake made by those who don't study or frequent discussion boards. I didn't say a thing about your partner. Are you denying that he was mistaken?

As Tom stated, the situation is not that weird. Since you brought your partner up, if he doesn't understand how loss of down effects this situation, then he's not in the rule book as much as he needs to be. Like it or not.