1st Down Mark Question

[JohnAlt]

I'm watching Iowa play Iowa State. The Iowa receiver made a first down reception, then was flagged for unsportsmanlike conduct after the play. They mark off 15 yards.

Questions: Why was it 1st and 10 after the penalty? Shouldn't it be 1st and 25? Why would they also move the 1st down marker back 15 yards? It must be the rule but it doesn't seem right.

[Forksref]

I can't speak for NCAA, but in FED the penalty is marked off, then the chains set. The only time you have anything other than 1/10 is when you have a foul after the ready for play.

[MJT]

Originally Posted by Forksref

I can't speak for NCAA, but in FED the penalty is marked off, then the chains set. The only time you have anything other than 1/10 is when you have a foul after the ready for play.

Same for NCAA.

[HawkeyeCubP]

There was a whole lot of talking going on that entire game by both sides, as there usually is in most rivalry games.

Good USC call on Chandler (receiver mentioned in the OP), and they probably should've got Tait (IA QB) for one after one of his runs ended OB on the ISU sideline, and waived the ball in an ISU bench-player's face after some more talking, in a taunting-type manner.

In any event, Go Hawks.

[irefky]

The USC was dead ball, so the play resulted in a first down, penalty was dead ball so it was marked off from the end of the play and chain set, first and ten after the 15 yard penalty was marked off.

same NCAA

[JohnAlt]

Thanks for the responses.

If this foul had occured after a team got stuffed on 2nd and goal from the opponents 3 yard line (setting up a 3rd and goal without the penalty), and the ball is marched back to the 18, what would the upcoming down and distance be?

[irefky]

still dead ball foul, would be 3rd on the 18 yard line.

Just another footnote, I was emotional for the kid who had lost his father earlier in the week. I can remember back when my father passed away, he was buried on my 18th birthday. I had been contacted by a university for a scholarship to play football, was waiting to tell my family on my birthday, my father never ever knew. I love you dad.

I wish this kid the best, never knew of him until tonight, now I am his biggest fan. I just cannot pronounce his name.

[JohnAlt]

Originally Posted by irefky

still dead ball foul, would be 3rd on the 18 yard line.

3rd and what? If 3rd and goal, how is this different than the actual example where they moved the chains back? Does that only happen after a dead ball foul following a 1st down?

[Texas Aggie]

I'm having trouble with the NCAA 1st and ten. The enforcement spot for a dead ball foul is the succeeding spot (10-2-2-a). The suceeding spot is where the ball is next to be put into play (def). The suceeding spot is first and ten, so why isn't it first and 25?

I can't find any rules support for the idea that the RFP has any bearing on this (NCAA). None of the ARs speak directly to this, as far as I can tell.

[JasonTX]

Originally Posted by JohnAlt

3rd and what? If 3rd and goal, how is this different than the actual example where they moved the chains back? Does that only happen after a dead ball foul following a 1st down?

Any time a team gains a 1st. down they are awarded a new series. A series will start as 1st and 10. The penalty is marked off and it remains 1st and 10. In your 3rd and goal situation, that series began with the line to gain being the goalline. If a dead ball foul occurs against the offense the penalty is marked off and the line to gain will still be the goalline because a new series wasn't awarded to the offense. Suppose there were multiple dead ball fouls against the offense and it takes the ball back to the 30 and now a personal foul is called against the defense for a late hit at the 30. That penalty is then marked off and team A will be awarded a new series and now it will be 1st and 10 from the 15.

[JasonTX]

Originally Posted by Texas Aggie

I'm having trouble with the NCAA 1st and ten. The enforcement spot for a dead ball foul is the succeeding spot (10-2-2-a). The suceeding spot is where the ball is next to be put into play (def). The suceeding spot is first and ten, so why isn't it first and 25?

I can't find any rules support for the idea that the RFP has any bearing on this (NCAA). None of the ARs speak directly to this, as far as I can tell.

Check out 5-2-7. Foul between series.

[irefky]

Originally Posted by JohnAlt

3rd and what? If 3rd and goal, how is this different than the actual example where they moved the chains back? Does that only happen after a dead ball foul following a 1st down?

3rd and goal

It's different because they had the ball already was 2nd and goal from the 3, no first down was going to be made to move the chains. If you made the line to gain on this example, you have a score.

So, the dead ball penalty, 15 yards is tacked on from the 3, and now be 3rd down.

[bossman72]

Originally Posted by JasonTX

Check out 5-2-7. Foul between series.

What would the rule reference be in the NFHS manual?

[JohnAlt]

Thanks guys. Now I get it.

[Texas Aggie]

>>Check out 5-2-7<<

OK, that works. I guess we missed one the other day!

But why isn't this rule in rule 10 instead of 5 as it deals with dead ball fouls?