forward latteral

[yankeesfan]

team B intercepts a pass and then throws(pitches) the ball forward to a teamate who drops the ball and team A recovers. what should be done on this play? penalty and enforcement please.

[BktBallRef]

It's an illegal forward pass. The pass is incomplete and the play is dead. A 5 yard penatly is assessed against B at the spot of the foul. 1st and 10 for B.

[Bob M.]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

It's an illegal forward pass. The pass is incomplete and the play is dead. A 5 yard penatly is assessed against B at the spot of the foul. 1st and 10 for B.

REPLY: Note that the loss of down that's normally assessed for an illegal forward pass is waived since it will be a new series (first down) for B. All series must begin with a 1st down.

[JugglingReferee]

This is where I believe the Canadian Ruling is better.

Team B is guilty of an offside pass.

It is A's ball.

[bluezebra]

Despite what the Boobs in the Booth say, there is no such thing as a lateral pass. Lateral means sideways, and the rule book recognizes FORWARD and BACKWARD PASSES, only.

By the way, forward lateral is a contradiction of terms. You're making the mistake (no doubt influenced by the announcers) that an underhand pass is a "lateral" pass.

Bob

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

This is where I believe the Canadian Ruling is better.

Team B is guilty of an offside pass.

It is A's ball.

Team B intercepts the ball.

Team B then makes a illegall forward pass.

The penalty is Team B loses the ball.

How the hell is that better? You penalize a team by taking the ball from them?

Under NFHS, NCAA, and NFL rules, no foul has a penalty that includes losing possession.

[RonRef]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

This is where I believe the Canadian Ruling is better.

Team B is guilty of an offside pass.

It is A's ball.

This is why nobody cares about Canadian football since Warren Moon and Doug Flutie no longer make your game worth watching!

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Team B intercepts the ball.

Team B then makes a illegall forward pass.

The penalty is Team B loses the ball.

How the hell is that better? You penalize a team by taking the ball from them?

Under NFHS, NCAA, and NFL rules, no foul has a penalty that includes losing possession.

I think (and I'm GUESSING here, so don't shoot me!) that the reason Juggling thinks this is better is that he's envisioning an attempt to pitch to a teammate, which is (too all non-referee eyes) "fumbled" and recovered by A. Which is why he sees the penalty as more fair - Team A "recovered a fumble" to most onlookers, and I've been Johnny on the spot more than once when ruling such a play an illegal forward pass, thus denying A the apparent fumble recovery. Recovering team is NEVER happy.

[DJ_NV]

OK I'm having a total brain meltdown here (I'll blame it on the Canadian rules). Forget the fumble recovery by A for a moment. Now, if there is a change of possession during a down (B intercepts A) and only B fouls after the COP (normal live-ball foul), then are there any penalty options for A?

Let's assume 1/10 @ 50. B intercepts a forward pass at the B-30 and runs to the B-45 and is downed. During the return, B99 clips at the B-40. Are there any options besides backing B up 15 from the spot of the foul and going 1/10 for B?

Now to follow up on the original post, we're saying that A cannot take the ball because the penalty has to be enforced?

thanks

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by DJ_NV

OK I'm having a total brain meltdown here (I'll blame it on the Canadian rules). Forget the fumble recovery by A for a moment. Now, if there is a change of possession during a down (B intercepts A) and only B fouls after the COP (normal live-ball foul), then are there any penalty options for A?

Let's assume 1/10 @ 50. B intercepts a forward pass at the B-30 and runs to the B-45 and is downed. During the return, B99 clips at the B-40. Are there any options besides backing B up 15 from the spot of the foul and going 1/10 for B?

Now to follow up on the original post, we're saying that A cannot take the ball because the penalty has to be enforced?

thanks

In the OP, there was no "fumble" for A to recover. Despite the fact that all of team A, plus the fans, plus the announcers "saw" a fumble, it was not a fumble ... it was an incomplete pass. (An illegal pass, yes ... but still an incomplete pass) You can't recover an incomplete pass, right?

[Bob M.]

REPLY: Let's take them one at a time...

Originally Posted by DJ_NV

OK I'm having a total brain meltdown here (I'll blame it on the Canadian rules). Forget the fumble recovery by A for a moment. Now, if there is a change of possession during a down (B intercepts A) and only B fouls after the COP (normal live-ball foul), then are there any penalty options for A?

REPLY: Yes they have the option of either accepting or declining the penalty for B foul(s) after COP.

Originally Posted by DJ_NV

Let's assume 1/10 @ 50. B intercepts a forward pass at the B-30 and runs to the B-45 and is downed. During the return, B99 clips at the B-40. Are there any options besides backing B up 15 from the spot of the foul and going 1/10 for B?

REPLY: A could refuse the penalty for B's clip...but why would they? If they do B, has the ball 1-10 from B's 45 rather than from B's 25

Originally Posted by DJ_NV

Now to follow up on the original post, we're saying that A cannot take the ball because the penalty has to be enforced?

REPLY: No...we're saying that A can't take the ball because the IFP was incomplete. All A did was recover a dead ball. If A chose to decline the penalty, the ball would be awarded to B, 1-10 from the spot of B's illegal pass.

[Warrenkicker]

Originally Posted by DJ_NV

Let's assume 1/10 @ 50. B intercepts a forward pass at the B-30 and runs to the B-45 and is downed. During the return, B99 clips at the B-40. Are there any options besides backing B up 15 from the spot of the foul and going 1/10 for B?

There are no options for A to get the ball back if that is your question. A can decline the penalty if they really want to but I don't think you will see that happen. The foul after the COP is penalized using ABO because B is now the offense.

[DJ_NV]

OK yes I see that, I was thinking fumble even though we had an IFP. A recovered a dead ball--no problem with that. Now, back to my original question if B only fouls after a COP, then A has options, but heither one will get them the ball back, correct?

thanks

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by DJ_NV

OK yes I see that, I was thinking fumble even though we had an IFP. A recovered a dead ball--no problem with that. Now, back to my original question if B only fouls after a COP, then A has options, but heither one will get them the ball back, correct?

thanks

There are no options for A to get the ball back if that is your question.

(Sorry, Warren, for creating an echo in here.)