Coin Toss Options

[golfdesigner]

I haven't been WH for very long, but my approach is to ask the coach during our initial meeting with him prior to coin toss, coach, if you win the toss what is your captain going to tell me? and which end do you want to defend? Then if the captains don't say what coach told me prior, then we say are you sure? This last Friday night prelim game, when Red won toss elected to defer, White took ball, asked Red, which end will you defend, captains, looked at each other and said, " I don't know Jeff what do you think, which way do you want to go" I stepped in and suggested that I thought their coach wanted to defend the scoreboard, they said okay, "we'll defend the scoreboard."

It seems to work for us anyway.

[MJT]

I also say you need to make sure he understands the mistake he is making even at the varsity level. I would say, "if you choose to defend a goal, you are going to kick and they are going to receive BOTH halves and I don't think you want that. Again, your choice is to receive, defer your choice to the 2nd half, kick, or defend a goal." If he still says defend a goal, I'm going over with him to the sideline after the announcement and explain exactly what happened out there.

[schmitty1973]

Ok I have to ask, what do you do if the Home team wins the toss and elects to defer, then the Visitors elect to Kick because that's what the coach told him to do if he won the toss? Do you correct him or not?

[RonRef]

Originally Posted by schmitty1973

Ok I have to ask, what do you do if the Home team wins the toss and elects to defer, then the Visitors elect to Kick because that's what the coach told him to do if he won the toss? Do you correct him or not?

I only give the options in this order RECEIVE, DEFER, KICK, (I DON’T GIVE THE OPTION OF DEFENDING A GOAL UNLESS THE CONDITION MAY WARRANT THAT OPTION). When I team defers I look at the other team and say "you want the ball, right?" Then I turn away and ask the deferring team which way they want to kick no even giving the other team a chance to screw it up. Deferring to the second half is not meant to screw a time out of the ball both halves. It is just an option if you want the ball in the second half, treat it as such. Just because they are captains doesn't mean they are smart kids, they may just be the best player or they may rotate captains for the toss from game to game. When we talk to the coach before the game I always ask him if he has a preference which captain will talk at the toss.

We need to use common sense and preventing officiating in this case.

[FootballRef05]

When I wear the WH I ask the coaches when I talk to the prior to the game if the captain knows what to do if they win and if the other team defers. That way you can point the kid in the right direction if he screws it up. Bottom line here is we all talk about preventative officiation and I think the toss falls right into that thinking. Why start the game or the second half with a pissed off coach? Knowing what the kids is supposed to do and "helping" him get there makes things much easier.

[mcrowder]

Poor game management. When he said, "We defer and..." you should just tell him that he only gets to defer right now and he has to wait a moment on the goal to choose. You should not have reopened the other options - he already told you EXACTLY what he wants.

ANY time you are faced with a kid about to give the other team the ball both halves, you need to make sure that's REALLY what he wants.

[Bob M.]

REPLY: I don't look at it as a captain having four choices. It's actually a two-tiered set of options:
FIRST DECISION

• Choice in the first half, or
• Defer and take choice in the second half.

SECOND DECISION

• Kick
• Receive
• Defend a Goal

So I approach it that way: "Captain, you've won the toss. Would you prefer to make your choice this half or defer and wait till the second half?" Only after that decision is made, will I even begin to mention the three options that need to be considered.

Same way as Ref In So CA recommended.

[Jim D]

We had it in a game Friday night. The home team won the toss and chose to defer. At the beginning of the second half, the captain said they would kick. After the WH asked him if he really wanted to kick the ball away and give it to the other team he figured that what he really wanted to do was to receive. Who knows what the kid was thinking.

[RonRef]

Originally Posted by Jim D

We had it in a game Friday night. The home team won the toss and chose to defer. At the beginning of the second half, the captain said they would kick. After the WH asked him if he really wanted to kick the ball away and give it to the other team he figured that what he really wanted to do was to receive. Who knows what the kid was thinking.

I know...he really wanted to receive! Why else would they defer, we sometimes are really reading way too much into these scenarios!

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by Bob M.

REPLY: I don't look at it as a captain having four choices. It's actually a two-tiered set of options:

This is the Canadian method. It's been in our book for a long time. It prevents many hiccups.

[RoyGardner]

As I posted earlier, I agree 100%. The option process should be handled as 2 parts:

1. Use option now or defer?

2. Then depending on 1. offer the 2nd option.

In any case, based on original scenario, I would have taken the response to mean: We will defer our option to the 2nd half, when opponent elects to take ball this half, we want to defend X goal."

[JasonTX]

I had a 7th grade game and you'd know that while standing on the sideline the coach is going over the options with his captain. He tells him if they win the toss that they want to kick. I explained to them that if they kicked then they'd most likely be kicking the 2nd half as well since the other team would get the 2nd half choices. I told them if they truly wanted to kick then the best option would be to defer. So, they won the toss and elected to defer. Sometimes even the coaches need a little help.

[wisref2]

Just last night, winning captain elects to kick. I repeat his options and he says he wants to kick. I asked "are you sure?" and he says he wants to kick.

After the coin toss - I went to the coach to make sure he understood what happened and he said his captain did what he (the coach) wanted - he wanted to kick!

I never did ask why he didn't just defer.

I always give options in this order, "defer, receive, kick or defend a goal." I don't disagree with those who don't give all the options, but I figure captians and coaches have to take some responsibility for knowing what the heck to do!

[NJRefJohn]

Hey Walt - think of anything "witty" yet?

[Indy_Stu]

3-2-3 is pretty clear; I can't see how we as officials continue to make this so difficult. Bob M. is correct; it is actually a two-tiered set of choices.

"The winner of the toss shall have first choice of options for the first half or to defer and have first choice for the second half."

There are actually two options to start each half, and they are the same before Q1 and before Q3. It is the right to wait to the second half to choose one of these two options when “defer” is used by the winner of the coin toss.

"The options for each half shall be:
a. To choose whether his team will kick or receive.
b. To choose the goal his team will defend.
The captain not having the first choice of options for a half shall exercise the remaining option."

I always ask winner of toss if they want to defer choice to second half, or make a choice now. Then I ask the appropriate captain if they want “to receive or kick, (slight pause to take a breath) or you can choose which goal to defend.” Very seldom - - maybe never? - - has the same team kicked off to start each half in any of our crew’s varsity games. However, there could be a situation (inclement weather) that gives the coin-toss-winning-deferring team an advantage by kicking off twice. That is the advantage of deferring, you have the choice closer to the situation you are about to put yourself into.