Illegal Use of the Hands

[Forksref]

Originally Posted by Niner

Disagree. Until a forward pass that crosses the LOS is thrown, the end is a potential blocker. A screen pass, a swing pass, or a QB draw could be run--- to name a few. The "no longer a potential blocker" relates to the pass being thrown another direction and the end being out of the play. If he is blocked after the pass is thrown in his direction, it is DPI.

The location of the ball has nothing to do with blocking potential. Impeding the receiver who is trying to get away from the defender is the issue.

[Niner]

When he is blocker it is a running play until the pass is thrown. Anything else is flag-happy.

[MJT]

Originally Posted by Niner

When he is blocker it is a running play until the pass is thrown. Anything else is flag-happy.

If he is blocking, yes, but if he is running a pass route and is even or behind the DB and there is contact, it is illegal use of hands without a doubt. How can you say that is flag happy???? Discussed this many times and been to many clinics and all agree that when he makes his break to get in his route, if there is contact, we have a foul. You are WAY off base on what you are saying!!!!

[Jim D]

The key on this play is B51's position in relation to A7. If A7 is even with or behind B51, then it's illegal use of the hands. However, if A7 is between B51 and the line of scrimmage, he's fair game as B51 has a right to move up to make the play and clear out anyone who gets in his way. B51 is not sure if A7is a potential blocker or a potential receiver until he tips his hand by moving by of cutting away from B51. I'd have to see this play but I'd give B51 maybe a little more slack than some of the other posts might suggest.

[MJT]

But Jim, the post said he is running a drag route. That means is is off the LOS, has made a cut, and is running parellel to the LOS. If he gets knocked off and the QB has the ball looking to pass, we have a foul. Now if the QB is running the option or has handed off, that is another matter. If A has a running play going on, A80 will not be running a pass route, he will be blocking.
Niner makes it sound as if the pass is not in the air, you can do anything to the receiver and it is fine. That is absolutely wrong and you will get crucified by an offensive coach if you do that.

[Suudy]

Exactly as I see it. I have this same argument every year with one of the WH in our association. I've learned that if I call this when I'm working with him, he'll wave it off and chew me out. As for the other WHs, I'll continue to call it.

Originally Posted by MJT

But Jim, the post said he is running a drag route. That means is is off the LOS, has made a cut, and is running parellel to the LOS. If he gets knocked off and the QB has the ball looking to pass, we have a foul.

Perhaps that's a great way to determine it, and to get my point across. Once the receiver makes a cut, he's no longer a potential blocker--regardless of position relative to the defenders.

[MJT]

I would have a serious problem with a white hat who picks up my flag for DPI or OPI. He usually will not even see it occur if he is doing his job. He is wrong and in as good of way as possible you need to discuss it with him so he sees that. This is not a judgement thing, the rule book backs up your arguement and not his. The only judgement is if you think he has made his break to start his route or not.

I am the white hat on our crew and I'd never pick up a flag like that unless we discussed it as a group and someone else said they saw it differently and the official who made the call changes his mind. If he doesn't change his mind, and it is not a rule issue, but a judgement issue, his judgement is his flag and we will discuss it later to see if maybe his judgement was wrong. Now if he threw a flag and by rule it was not a foul, we will pick it up.

Good luck!

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by Jim D

The key on this play is B51's position in relation to A7. If A7 is even with or behind B51, then it's illegal use of the hands. However, if A7 is between B51 and the line of scrimmage, he's fair game as B51 has a right to move up to make the play and clear out anyone who gets in his way. B51 is not sure if A7is a potential blocker or a potential receiver until he tips his hand by moving by of cutting away from B51. I'd have to see this play but I'd give B51 maybe a little more slack than some of the other posts might suggest.

No, the key on this play is the official's JUDGEMENT as to whether the player is running a pass route or not. Which, coincidentally, is what the rule says. If the official judges this player to be running a route and no longer a blocker, then he cannot be contacted in this manner.

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by Niner

When he is blocker it is a running play until the pass is thrown. Anything else is flag-happy.

Please stop spreading this misconception. You've been told the proper ruling on what "no longer a blocker" means. If you still disagree, please ask your supervisor(s) or clinicians.