Illegal Use of the Hands

[Suudy]

This seems to come up every year, and it never seems to be resolved. We argue every year on whether this is a foul.

Tight-end A80 is dragging across the field behind the defense as A7 drops back to pass. B51, seeing A80 dragging, hits A80 and knocks him down. After A80 is knocked down, A7 throws an incomplete pass at A80.

The question is the contact by B51 an illegal use of the hands. Rule 9.2.3d says that a "defensive player shall not d. Contact an eligible receiver who is no longer a potential blocker."

I think in this case it is obvious that A80 is on a pass route, and that the contact by B51 is illegal use of the hands. Others argue that if the hit was legal (i.e. in the front and not flagrant or punishing), then it is not a foul.

How do you interpret the "no longer a potential blocker" phrase?

Note: NFHS rule listed (9.2.3)

[BktBallRef]

If the passer has obviously dropped back to pass and the receiver obviously is not trying to contact the defender but is attempting to move away from him, it's an easy call for me.

[Forksref]

I like the term "impede" to describe how the A player was held up. Knocking him down is not what I consider to be a borderline call. It's easy, as BBR just said.

[MJT]

Most definitely illegal use of hands, and if the ball is in the air, you have DPI.

[ref-farai]

Two weeks ago I was the HL in a game that had an almost identical play. IUofH is the right call.

[Niner]

Disagree. Until a forward pass that crosses the LOS is thrown, the end is a potential blocker. A screen pass, a swing pass, or a QB draw could be run--- to name a few. The "no longer a potential blocker" relates to the pass being thrown another direction and the end being out of the play. If he is blocked after the pass is thrown in his direction, it is DPI.

[MJT]

Originally Posted by Niner

Disagree. Until a forward pass that crosses the LOS is thrown, the end is a potential blocker. A screen pass, a swing pass, or a QB draw could be run--- to name a few. The "no longer a potential blocker" relates to the pass being thrown another direction and the end being out of the play. If he is blocked after the pass is thrown in his direction, it is DPI.

The "potential blocker" possibility ends when he makes a cut to get into a pattern. He is a potential blocker when he is face to face with his defender or initiating a block, but not after he has made a cut and definitely not if he is in a pattern such as a drag across the middle.
This is illegal use of hands for sure, and if ball is in the air, DPI.

[Forksref]

Originally Posted by Niner

Disagree. Until a forward pass that crosses the LOS is thrown, the end is a potential blocker. A screen pass, a swing pass, or a QB draw could be run--- to name a few. The "no longer a potential blocker" relates to the pass being thrown another direction and the end being out of the play. If he is blocked after the pass is thrown in his direction, it is DPI.

The location of the ball has nothing to do with blocking potential. Impeding the receiver who is trying to get away from the defender is the issue.

[Niner]

When he is blocker it is a running play until the pass is thrown. Anything else is flag-happy.

[MJT]

Originally Posted by Niner

When he is blocker it is a running play until the pass is thrown. Anything else is flag-happy.

If he is blocking, yes, but if he is running a pass route and is even or behind the DB and there is contact, it is illegal use of hands without a doubt. How can you say that is flag happy???? Discussed this many times and been to many clinics and all agree that when he makes his break to get in his route, if there is contact, we have a foul. You are WAY off base on what you are saying!!!!

[Jim D]

The key on this play is B51's position in relation to A7. If A7 is even with or behind B51, then it's illegal use of the hands. However, if A7 is between B51 and the line of scrimmage, he's fair game as B51 has a right to move up to make the play and clear out anyone who gets in his way. B51 is not sure if A7is a potential blocker or a potential receiver until he tips his hand by moving by of cutting away from B51. I'd have to see this play but I'd give B51 maybe a little more slack than some of the other posts might suggest.

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by Niner

When he is blocker it is a running play until the pass is thrown. Anything else is flag-happy.

Please stop spreading this misconception. You've been told the proper ruling on what "no longer a blocker" means. If you still disagree, please ask your supervisor(s) or clinicians.

[MJT]

But Jim, the post said he is running a drag route. That means is is off the LOS, has made a cut, and is running parellel to the LOS. If he gets knocked off and the QB has the ball looking to pass, we have a foul. Now if the QB is running the option or has handed off, that is another matter. If A has a running play going on, A80 will not be running a pass route, he will be blocking.
Niner makes it sound as if the pass is not in the air, you can do anything to the receiver and it is fine. That is absolutely wrong and you will get crucified by an offensive coach if you do that.

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by Jim D

The key on this play is B51's position in relation to A7. If A7 is even with or behind B51, then it's illegal use of the hands. However, if A7 is between B51 and the line of scrimmage, he's fair game as B51 has a right to move up to make the play and clear out anyone who gets in his way. B51 is not sure if A7is a potential blocker or a potential receiver until he tips his hand by moving by of cutting away from B51. I'd have to see this play but I'd give B51 maybe a little more slack than some of the other posts might suggest.

No, the key on this play is the official's JUDGEMENT as to whether the player is running a pass route or not. Which, coincidentally, is what the rule says. If the official judges this player to be running a route and no longer a blocker, then he cannot be contacted in this manner.

[Suudy]

Exactly as I see it. I have this same argument every year with one of the WH in our association. I've learned that if I call this when I'm working with him, he'll wave it off and chew me out. As for the other WHs, I'll continue to call it.

Originally Posted by MJT

But Jim, the post said he is running a drag route. That means is is off the LOS, has made a cut, and is running parellel to the LOS. If he gets knocked off and the QB has the ball looking to pass, we have a foul.

Perhaps that's a great way to determine it, and to get my point across. Once the receiver makes a cut, he's no longer a potential blocker--regardless of position relative to the defenders.