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Old Sat Nov 19, 2005, 09:09pm
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Toward the end of the Tennessee-Vanderbilt game today, Tennessee attempted to spike the ball to stop the clock with less than :20 to play. The ball was marked ready for play, there was a direct hand-to-hand snap, and the ball appeared to have been legally spiked. However, right at the snap, the referee dropped his flag, but did not kill the play before the spike. After the play, the referee signaled a dead ball, delay of game.

No one I have talked to has been able to figure out exactly what happened on that play for it to be a delay of game. I might have understood illegal formation or false start because I'm not sure UT's offense was set or had 7 on the line. But why would this have been called delay of game? Is there some special NCAA rule I am not aware of for this situation?
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Old Sat Nov 19, 2005, 09:22pm
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Sounds like the ball was snapped before the RFP whistle. Are you sure the RFP was blown?
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Old Sun Nov 20, 2005, 01:45am
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Quote:
Originally posted by TXMike
Sounds like the ball was snapped before the RFP whistle. Are you sure the RFP was blown?
I'm 99% sure.
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Old Sun Nov 20, 2005, 06:49am
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I checked the play by play notes and they also say it was a delay of game penalty. I'll look around today for a replay of the game but only thing it could have been was snapping before the ready for play. What did they do about the clock? Reset any time lost durng the dead ball action after the snap?
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Old Mon Nov 21, 2005, 01:54am
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I was at the game (unfortunately) and didn't have a chance to see any replay of that play. The only thing I can think of is that the referee simply gave the wrong signal/announcement for what happened. I thought there probably was a false start on the play, as in, all of UT's players were not set at the snap. But I didn't think this would be a delay of game.

As it turned out, if UT had scored on the possession, the penalty could have actually been beneficial. The original down/distance was 2nd and 4 from the VU 11. Instead of the spike stopping the clock legally and it becoming 3rd and 4, the delay of game penalty made it 2nd and 9 from the 16. The clock started on the snap. So the penalty actually gave UT 3 shots at the end zone as opposed to the two they would have had if there had been no penalty.

I'm pretty sure there was :30 or less left on the clock before the first down play (a quarterback draw) that got the ball to the 11. Since UT had no time-outs, the clock kept running. The spike happened with :13 to play. No time was put back on the clock.

[Edited by bigwes68 on Nov 21st, 2005 at 01:58 AM]
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Old Mon Nov 21, 2005, 06:23am
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Assuming the foul was for snapping before the RFP, the correct response would be to shut it down, flag, enforce, reset any time that went off between snap and it being shut down, then restart clock on RFP as it was running when the foul took place.
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Old Mon Nov 21, 2005, 10:57am
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Bigwes - a LOT of the time, a false start by the offense actually ends up helping the offense. Example - Detroit vs Dallas, the Lions committed a false start, which no one on the field heard - and then threw an interception. To the casual observer, the false start helped the offense. To us, we know the play never happened... just as the spike never happened in the game you are referring to.

If it was a delay or a false start, though, committed while trying to conserve time, did the officials run off any clock, and/or start the clock on the ready, as they probably should have?
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Old Wed Nov 23, 2005, 06:08pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by mcrowder
Bigwes - a LOT of the time, a false start by the offense actually ends up helping the offense. Example - Detroit vs Dallas, the Lions committed a false start, which no one on the field heard - and then threw an interception. To the casual observer, the false start helped the offense. To us, we know the play never happened... just as the spike never happened in the game you are referring to.

If it was a delay or a false start, though, committed while trying to conserve time, did the officials run off any clock, and/or start the clock on the ready, as they probably should have?
No clock was run off and the clock started on the snap. It was as if he called it as a foul during the play (even though he gave the "dead ball" signal).

Seems from what I've pieced together, the officials just messed up. But it really didn't have any direct impact on the game (although it could have if UT had scored on the fourth-down play on which the ball was snapped with :01 left).

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Old Thu Nov 24, 2005, 09:45pm
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Interesting, since I had a play in a frosh game this year almost exactly like this. Team A was down 4, I think, and had a first down at the B8 with 16 seconds left. Clock was stopped for a TO. First down play was a run to the 4 or so, and A got up to spike the ball, which they did, and I looked up at the clock which said :01. Next thing I know, the R (I'm HL) is winding the clock for the RFP, and I wondering why. The horn goes off, the R raises the ball above his head, and him and the U bust *** off the field toward their cars leaving me walking through Team A's sideline when two coaches get to me, and being on the far other side of the field, I'm not sure why the R did this.

To make a long story short, after I called him, he stated the spike was prior to the RFP, and so he just had the U set the ball and gave another RFP, which ran the one second off. However, this was terribly wrong -- not to mention leaving the field without all officials accounted for -- and left everyone thinking we had screwed up by starting the clock on the RFP instead of the snap.

So, with all that said, what rule specifically allows a winding the clock after a delay of game penalty (like the one I mentioned) on the offense on the RFP? At best, as I read it, the rule is ambiguous.
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Old Fri Nov 25, 2005, 09:21am
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In NCAA rules, the R always has the option to start on the RFP or hold the clock till snap if he believes one team or the other did something to illegally consume or conserve time. It is over in Rule 3.
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