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Mon Oct 24, 2005, 11:52am
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I was LJ. Receiver on my sideline gets jammed by the corner who's playing him tight. Rides him out of bounds. It was clean (no holding, etc.) The receiver gets back inbounds quickly and as soon as he establishes himself inbounds, the ball hits him in the hands. He catches and steps right back out of bounds. I rule a catch (player was forced OOB and returned at first opportunity)
All this happened pretty quick, so the thought in my head was whether the ball was in the air while the corner was still contacting the WR (possible DPI) Obviously, I'm not looking back at the QB, so I can't tell. Would this be for the BJ to help out on? 
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Mon Oct 24, 2005, 12:08pm
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Quote:
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Mon Oct 24, 2005, 12:17pm
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This is a tough call as you are focused on the rec and did not see when the ball was released. The BJ was probably watching his area may not have a chance to help you. Once the pass is thrown the BJ may be able to look in the direction of the pass and help- out. Ask him if he could help you. Lot of other Questions as to where was rec was and how deep and does BJ get this rec in his area etc.
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Mon Oct 24, 2005, 12:34pm
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MJT:
I said that the corner rode the WR OOB. He bumped him off the line as soon as he started his route. The receiver was still moving forward, but the corner rode him about 2 yards OOB and then stopped contacting him. Once that happened, the receiver moved back in bounds and caught the pass, then stepped right back OOB on his own. I didn't see anything illegal about the contact, other than if the pass was in the air during the contact.
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Mon Oct 24, 2005, 12:45pm
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MJT, what does your question have to do with the question on the play. It's about mechanics question when the ball was in the air and not how the player was sent (goes) OB.
__________________
Jim Schroeder Read Rule 2, Read Rule 2, Read Rule 2!
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Mon Oct 24, 2005, 01:42pm
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I am guessing that you would get little to no help on this one. BJ also has his keys and may be looking in a completely different direction. The opposite wing may be able to see something as well but would have a very funny looking flag. As a wing you can only hope that you don't get into a situation where you are forced to turn your back to the QB because then all of your timing as to when the pass is thrown is just a guess. But most any pass won't take more than a couple of seconds from release until it is at the receiver. So if the receiver is very quickly moving his arms away from the contact to catch the ball then there was probably contact while the ball was in the air. However based on your description of the play, I could see it going either way with having contact while the ball was in the air. But if you can't be confident the ball was in the air then you don't have a foul for DPI.
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Mon Oct 24, 2005, 02:00pm
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Really tough call!! If you just "thought it was a possibility" that B was still contacting A while the ball was in the air, I think you handle it just right. If the BJ can gives you help, fine.
If you "strongly suspect" there was contact while the ball is in the air, I see nothing wrong with dropping your flag and asking the BJ if the ball had been thrown. If he says no or didn't see it - pick it up. The BJ may not throw that flag with you closely covering the play and may not even see it if he had receives in his area. I assume B's contact ended after R was no long a potential blocker and illegal contact was not a consideration. Some things to consider - How long of a throw was it? Did B's end contact soon enough for that length of throw to get to the area?
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Mon Oct 24, 2005, 02:08pm
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Dumbref,
These are really good questions. Ones that I've asked myself. My judgment during the play was that it wasn't illegal use of hands. I still feel that way having thought about the play for a few days. The contact probably started around 5 yards off the line and ended probably 7-10 yards off the line. I think it could definitely be argued that the receiver was still a potential blocker. The whole thing in my head is timing. I would say it was a 12-15 yard pass. The time between the end of the contact and the ball getting to the receiver seemed really quick in my mind. But I still think that more than likely, we did not have DPI.
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Mon Oct 24, 2005, 03:29pm
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In reading my comment, you may think I am advocating throwing a flag when you suspect a foul. I certainly did not mean that. When there are two elements to a foul like PI, it is sometimes difficult to see both elements at the same time.
Don't take this the wrong way, but there could be a slight glitch in your mechanics. As soon as you have contact that could be DPI - take a quick glance at the QB. You maybe watching the receivers too long. But if you are watching the receivers, you are way ahead of a lot of wingmen! I see too many that as soon as they read pass, watch the QB until the ball is thrown. This play makes it twice as difficult because you also need to make sure A returns to the field ASAP. Again I say tough call!
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Mon Oct 24, 2005, 03:52pm
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Thanks, dumbref.
I'm in my 2nd year, and the biggest difference I've noticed in myself from last year is watching your area instead of the ball/QB. It seemed my first several games on the field all I wanted to do was look at the ball. I also had "tunnel vision". After getting comfortable and working with some great officials, I now see the game completely differently. Looking back on it, I can't imagine how many holds, blocks in the back, PI, etc. that I must have missed when I first started. Edit: I also didn't think you were advocating dropping my flag on that situation.
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Mon Oct 24, 2005, 04:16pm
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Isn't continuing to "ride" the receiver while he's OOB a flag in and of itself?
__________________
"Many baseball fans look upon an umpire as a sort of necessary evil to the luxury of baseball, like the odor that follows an automobile." - Hall of Fame Pitcher Christy Mathewson
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