Starting Clock question

[William C]

I've been a White Hat a long time and maybe I've been doing something wrong for a long time too.

Here's the question ....

There's been a stoppage of the clock --for whatever reason --out of bounds -- time out --incomplete.....
The clock will start w/ the snap after this.
Offense runs a play --- a running play for 5 yd gain -and is guilty of a hold --that is accepted.
We penalize and set it up for a re-play of that down.
When does the clock start? RFP or snap ????

I've been doing that on the snap --due to the re-play and the previous down was on the snap. Some of our guys now are saying it should be on the ready.

Thoughts????

[James Neil]

Originally posted by William C
I've been a White Hat a long time and maybe I've been doing something wrong for a long time too.

Here's the question ....

There's been a stoppage of the clock --for whatever reason --out of bounds -- time out --incomplete.....
The clock will start w/ the snap after this.
Offense runs a play --- a running play for 5 yd gain -and is guilty of a hold --that is accepted.
We penalize and set it up for a re-play of that down.
When does the clock start? RFP or snap ????

I've been doing that on the snap --due to the re-play and the previous down was on the snap. Some of our guys now are saying it should be on the ready.

Thoughts????

I believe you got it right. This is a replay of the down so I'd go with the snap.

[Theisey]

Start clock on the RFP. You just had a live ball foul so the clock was/is running during that play. You stopped the clock to deal with a penalty. No other major clock stopper caused the clock to be stopped.

[waltjp]

I'm going on the ready. The clock was stopped because of the penalty.

Look at it this way, if you had holding during an incomplete pass you'd start on the snap because the clocked stopped on the incomplete pass.

[William C]

Well -- looks like we have a difference of opinion --already. Just like w/ our group of officials.
I know --years ago I saw it in the case book and that's why I've done it this way --on the snap.
There's nothing in the case book now.
My theory is --based on what I remember it saying -- the clock remains the same --due to the fact it's a re-play of that down. It started on the snap initially and it'll start the same way for the replay.
But - I've been wrong before and this is really bugging me and wanted your opinions.

[MJT]

This discussion will quickly turn to starting the clock on the RFP for the play you described. On THAT play, the clock was stopped ONLY cuz of the penalty. Rule 3-4-2 says start on the RFP if "the action which caused the down to end did not also cause the clock to be stopped." This is what happened. The ONLY reason the clock was stopped, since we had a running play end inbounds was the penalty. Therefor the clock will start on the RFP.

Now if you had a false start, encroachment, illegal substitution, illegal equipment, or another dead ball foul before the snap, then you go back to the previous play, which was OOB's so we would start on the snap.

110% sure on this and the RFP will become the dominate answer given as more see this thread.

[Gman34]

Ditto MJT

[kd0254]

Clock on Ready, agree with MJT

[Bob Mc]

3.4.2-B covers the situation

The clock shall start with the rfp signal for other than a free kick if the clock was stopped
Because the ball has become dead following any foul provided
1. there has been no charged time out
2. the down is not the extension of a period or try
3. the action which caused the down to end did not also cause the clock to be stopped.

Start the clock on the rfp.

Even though we all say "repeat ___ down" when one reads 5.2 it is referred to as "the number of the next down is the same as that of the down during which the foul occurred..." what we are repeating is the down number not the down itself or any clock management that led up to the previous down.

[Edited by Bob Mc on Oct 22nd, 2005 at 01:30 PM]

[Jim S]

On the ready.
The clock was stopped for an official's T.O. (not for a foul) (I know, we stop the clock after a down with a foul. BUT, if you use the proper reasons and terms you'll see that it leads to less confusion.) And we start the clock on the ready after an official's T.O. Unless there is some other reason to go on the snap.
Replaying the down has nothing to do with clock management.

[devdog69]

Wow, I'm sick over the time of your life you have lost

You said you've white hatted a long time...

Let's say 15 years @ 25 games a year (counting JH & JV),
that's 375 games, let's say that situation comes up 5 times a game, that's 1875 times and let's say it costs 20 seconds each time, that's over 10 1/2 hours of your life...just gone...shew...

[Rich]

Originally posted by Bob Mc
3.4.2-B covers the situation

The clock shall start with the rfp signal for other than a free kick if the clock was stopped
Because the ball has become dead following any foul provided
1. there has been no charged time out
2. the down is not the extension of a period or try
3. the action which caused the down to end did not also cause the clock to be stopped.

Start the clock on the rfp.

Even though we all say "repeat ___ down" when one reads 5.2 it is referred to as "the number of the next down is the same as that of the down during which the foul occurred..." what we are repeating is the down number not the down itself or any clock management that led up to the previous down.

[Edited by Bob Mc on Oct 22nd, 2005 at 01:30 PM]

Yup, it's a straightforward application. If it's a live ball foul, you only stop the clock to handle the penalty. After the penalty, you start the clock based on the play (if it's incomplete, out of bounds, or there was a "TD" on the play, start on the snap -- if it's inbounds running play, start on the rfp).

[JasonTX]

FWIW, NCAA starts on the ready on this play.

[Bob M.]

REPLY: On the ready -- Fed and NCAA. The fact that the play in which the foul occurred was a replay of a down where the clock started on the snap is immaterial.

[Snake~eyes]

Originally posted by Bob M.
REPLY: On the ready -- Fed and NCAA. The fact that the play in which the foul occurred was a replay of a down where the clock started on the snap is immaterial.

As usual I will agree with Bob and company.