What is a player before he kicks the ball??

MJT

Please read the following post for your input is wanted. http://www.officialforum.com/thread/22527

cowbyfan1

I will agree, until he kicks it he is fair game. If he drops it and gets hit and barely gets a foot on it I still have no flag.

Gotta get the kick off to be a kicker. If he drops it and misses the kick is he still a kicker? I think not.

Warrenkicker

An A player is lineman or a back until he gets the ball. Once he has the ball he is a runner. Once he throws a pass he is a passer. Once he kicks the ball he is a kicker. Once the ball is turned over he is a defender.

golfnref

Originally posted by cowbyfan1
I will agree, until he kicks it he is fair game. If he drops it and gets hit and barely gets a foot on it I still have no flag.

Gotta get the kick off to be a kicker. If he drops it and misses the kick is he still a kicker? I think not.

Excellent observations.

mcrowder

He's a runner.

Theisey

Why do we need another tread for this?
Player designations are clearly defined in NF rule 2-30 and NCAA 2-27.
There should no question about the players status.

A flag for roughing the passer who was just moments before a runner or roughing a kicker who just moments ago was a runner is judgemental and therefore this call is going to vary from ref to ref.

BktBallRef

Originally posted by Theisey
Why do we need another tread for this?

A flag for roughing the passer who was just moments before a runner or roughing a kicker who just moments ago was a runner is judgemental and therefore this call is going to vary from ref to ref.

Agreed. Thanks Tom.

MJT

Originally posted by BktBallRef

Originally posted by Theisey
Why do we need another tread for this?

A flag for roughing the passer who was just moments before a runner or roughing a kicker who just moments ago was a runner is judgemental and therefore this call is going to vary from ref to ref.

Agreed. Thanks Tom.

BktballRef, Tom is saying that you could have RTK for someone who "just moments ago" was a runner (meaning he has kicked it). We all agree with that.

I am saying, and everyone else except you and Forksref have agreed with me, is that he is not a kicker until he kicks it. Therefor you cannot call RTK until he kicks it.

Are you saying you would call a roughing the passer if the QB is hit before he passes it?

golfnref

Originally posted by BktBallRef

Originally posted by Theisey
Why do we need another tread for this?

A flag for roughing the passer who was just moments before a runner or roughing a kicker who just moments ago was a runner is judgemental and therefore this call is going to vary from ref to ref.

Agreed. Thanks Tom.

BBR I don't think Theisey said anything that supports your argument. A kicker who just moments ago was a runner implies he has kicked the ball. The only way you can have a "kicker" is when the ball is kicked. He may be the intended kicker but he must actually kick the ball to meet the definition of "kicker"

w_sohl

I do not remember where I saw it and I do not have my books handy, but it does say that one does not become a kicker till the moment the ball meets the foot. So, until that fraction of a second he/she is a runner.

Bob M.

Originally posted by w_sohl
I do not remember where I saw it and I do not have my books handy, but it does say that one does not become a kicker till the moment the ball meets the foot. So, until that fraction of a second he/she is a runner.

REPLY: It says so in NF 2-30-8 and implies as much in NF 2-30-13.