scrimmage kick behind line

[cad]

K 4/15 @ K15. Scrimmage kick bounces at K25 and returns to K13 where K recovers and stands there for 3 seconds where LJ blows play dead. Do we have inadvertent whistle?. K could have returned ball but wasn't aware he could do so.

[mcrowder]

IW

[Snake~eyes]

What caused the ball to be dead?

Answer: IW.

[stevesmith]

NCAA- Correct call. R's ball at K's 13 yard line.

[WyMike]

At out assoc meeting the other night we had a similar play come up. I didn't work the game but we routinely bring up plays we run into.

Ball at K's 3yd line. R blocks the ball behind the NZ at the 2yd line. K5 recovers the ball and walks it into the EZ and stands. The rest of K begins to leave the field and R follows suit. (Yeah, Varsity game too.)

Both teams are near the sidelines when LJ finally blows his whistle as nothing was happening. K5 was making no attempt to move the ball, R was making no attempt to tackle K5.

After a few seconds elapsed from the whistle, R's HC wanted a safety as he now realizes the play was live. K's HC wanted an IW.

Confusion ensued, it was a driving rainstorm and K was way ahead late in the game. WH confers with the crew, then goes to confer with both HC's.

Afterwards they all agree it will be R's ball 1/10 on the 3 yd line. Never understood why though. Guess they all wanted to get into the locker rooms.

WM

[JDLJ]

I think the important part of you post is that there is a difference between an IW and this whistle. In the first play situation, it looks like an IW because the LJ blew it so soon - he should have let the play develop. In the second case, the covering official waited until it was clear no further action was going to happen. The ball was dead not by rule nor by contact and not by held forward progress but by the player in possession making no attempt to move and the defense making no attempt to tackle.

It should have been a safety on the play, though.

[WyMike]

Originally posted by JDLJ
I think the important part of you post is that there is a difference between an IW and this whistle. In the first play situation, it looks like an IW because the LJ blew it so soon - he should have let the play develop. In the second case, the covering official waited until it was clear no further action was going to happen. The ball was dead not by rule nor by contact and not by held forward progress but by the player in possession making no attempt to move and the defense making no attempt to tackle.

It should have been a safety on the play, though.

That was my vote.

WM

[irefky]

IW; follow procedure, I think if I was the LJ or working this contest, I would have gave the winding clock signal and hopefully the player would have seen this to advance the ball toward the line to gain.

[kentref]

Originally posted by WyMike

That was my vote.

WM

Two comments:
1. I tend to agree that for this situation the play appeared to be "over" because there was no effort to advance the ball. The result of the play should have been a safety then.
2. Let's assume you let the play go and the K player in possession heads down field. How do you then account for all the players who have voluntarily left the field? You certainly will have some illegal participation when and if they return, correct?

[BulldogMcC]

At sub-varsity levels I will yell out, "Live Ball!" I have a very good boom on my voice, law enforcement trained. I have never had anything like this happen at the varsity level but I think at that level I just stand there. K is not trying to deceive R, they are just confused. There is no violation of the rules for being confused. The one thing I would not do as a wing is tell one sideline, "That is a live ball coach", since that would provide an unfair advantage to one sideline. As the R though, at sub-varisty, I do yell out "Live Ball" loud enough for fans on both sidelines to hear.

Had one today in a Junior High game. K lines up for a field goal from the 10 yard line, tee at the 17. I yell out before the snap, "Live Play, Live Ball!" I do this because 7th & 8th grade games are generally played with dead punts, so we need to remind them they can rush the kick since it is a scoring attempt. The "Live Ball" part is for my fellow two officials. The ball is partially blocked behind the NZ, but continues across the neutral zone and is rolling around the 2 yard line. The holder picks up his tee and starts trotting off, both coaches start getting their Off/Def ready to take the field. I yell out "Live Ball" and all 22 players sprang back to life and both HC's realized that was a field goal, not a try and turned their attention back to the field. R picks up the ball and returns it about 12 yards before being tackled.

I still think at varsity level I just wait for the ball to stop rolling and when no one is trying to get it and it has stopped rolling blow it dead. If it is in player possession I would just stand and watch. But we are likely going to get at least one IP foul for a substitute coming off the sideline and entering the field thinking the play is over.